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 Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan 
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Post Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
Has anyone else been following this? These two "Titans of truth" are now battling it out online. ( I give Clif the best out of three free falls) Many of us post on both forums, and reserve personal judgement, so what are your thoughts on this?
Mizar


Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:10 pm
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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
Mizar, what forum(s) can we follow this on? Thanks for the heads up - I'm very interested. TIA

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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
Mizar wrote:
Has anyone else been following this? These two "Titans of truth" are now battling it out online. ( I give Clif the best out of three free falls) Many of us post on both forums, and reserve personal judgement, so what are your thoughts on this?
Mizar


First off I would NOT call either of these guys "TITANS"

I think they are both looking for money & or a big TV deal, lets face it they both want to be the next Stanton Friedman on the History Channel ...

That being said I thought that Bill was a not so honest guy (still do for his involvment with SERPO) until he was attacked By Dan Burisch.

I think that Bill did a decent job of dealing with the attack by the Burisch camp, that’s NOT to say that I agree with Bill or for that matter with the Burisch camp.
Bill took the attack in stride and never once degraded his attackers, I cannot say that about the Burisch Camp.

That says allot about Bill's character but once again I am not not saying that he is right I just respect him for not throwing mud when he could.
Maybe if Bill comes clean about the whole Serpo deal I will believe him again...

As for Cliff and the Bots that’s a whole new ball game and one that I do not or maybe cannot understand let alone believe...

The way I see it Cliff claims allot but NEVER really delivers on anything, he comes close to current events and blames it on vibes and near misses, how convianant.
Now he wants money for his predictions.. ;)

Cliff's another Charlie for me, great Drama and great reading but nothing more!

You asked..

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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
I did a little poking around, and Bill Ryan posts on Project Camelot, and a letter from Clif High to Bill Ryan was posted on Project Avalon. I haven't had time to really read it or look into the controversy, though it appears to center on Bill Deagle. More if I have a chance to do some reading there, but I'm not sure if it will be soon.

The letter by Clif is here: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18276

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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
First off here is the open letter from Cliff High to Bill Ryan form the Camelot Forum, I cannot find teh discussion regarding it, can someone post it if they find it please and thanks!

Once again Bill is caught making false claims, just like he did with Serpo :nono
Why is everyone letting Bill off when it comes to Serpo anyways :dunno where's Shawnna when I need her...

When will Bill ever learn that to make accusations like he as against Cliff you need PROOF not hearsay :shakehead
I think I am going back to my original assesment of Bill Ryan which is that he is not the best investigator because he goes on half truths and hearsay...

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December 14, 2009

Open Letter to Bill Ryan (and Kerry Cassidy) at Project Camelot and interested members of the Woo-jo.

In the martial arts, especially within those arts of Japanese descent, the place in which one practices their art is called a dojo. The ‘do’ part means ‘path’, while the ‘jo’ part means ‘place’, so the whole translates into ‘place of the (practice) of the path (or ‘way’).

Here at Halfpasthuman, we recognize that what we have labeled as the ‘woo woo world’ exists within a virtual space that we call the ‘woo-jo’.

As within any dojo, conflicts and contention arise. In martial arts dojo’s, such conflicts are dealt with as soon as they arise or they fester and destroy harmony in a very delicate enviroment filled with weapons and deadly skills. In the martial arts, frequently these disputes are brought to the mat in an open fashion before all members of the dojo as all form a community, and thus all are stakeholders in the harmony of the dojo. Thus are the energies dispersed, and opportunities created for harmonization to continue.

Such a conflict has arisen between Bill Ryan (specifically) at Project Camelot and myself. Bill has a thread in his forum at Project Avalon, in which he responds to a question about why I (clif high) think Dr. Bill Deagle is full of **** as a woo-woo personality. I had previously made public statements that I found Bill Deagle’s information to be questionable at best. This caused a question to Bill Ryan of Project Camelot (http://www.projectcamelot.org/) to which he responded.

Bill Ryans’ response to the questioner can be read at their Project Avalon forum, and also below in quotes….
“As best we understand, Clif High set a PI [Private Investigator] on Deagle's bank account without Deagle's knowledge or consent, with an instruction to look for something that could be used against him.

The PI found some income that he could not account for and Clif therefore assumed that he must be a paid agent.

It's an understatement to say that this is very dumb of Clif, who is normally a bright guy. If anyone looked in to my bank account, or yours, or anyone's, they would find things they didn't understand. I don't even understand my own bank statements sometimes.

And because this was all done without Deagle's consent, he was never asked if there was an innocent explanation.

Not good research - and very underhand. We should not be doing this to one another.

My solid opinion: Deagle is a very good man. We've spoken with him extensively, on and off record.

One amazing conversation I witnessed two years ago and have never forgotten (because I was physically in the room where Henry Deacon/ Arthur Neumann was talking with him on Skype) was Deagle and Henry comparing places and projects where they had both worked. Project names, codewords, clearances, everything. They figured out that they must have bumped into one another but couldn't recall where. The conversation lasted 45 minutes and was quite something else.

We've visited his house and met his wife and children. He's a huge-hearted soul with a brain the size of a small planet. He is also human. I respect him highly.”

**** end quoted material

This is incorrect information. I did not hire any PI, nor did I ‘set’ such a person onto Deagle. I find the entire statement made by Bill Ryan here is pejorative in both tone and word selection. His ‘understanding’ is factually wrong. His assumptions about my analytical abilities are wrong. Please re-read Bill Ryan’s statement and note the words used. The tone and words are offensive. The factual ‘errors’ are incriminating and further, Bill Ryan is directly accusatory.

I would have thought that, given the recent problems cited by Bill Ryan himself in his Open Letter to Jeff Rense, as well as the awful treatment that he, himself, has suffered at the digital pen of D. Burish, that he would have been a bit more sensitive in his response to these questions. But I guess not...

I do understand that Bill Ryan has a large energy and emotional investment into the perceived bona fides of the infamous Dr. Bill Deagle. I do understand that any perceived attacks, in a psychology sense, against objects or personalities with which the ego has identified, are treated by the ego as attacks on that ego itself, and that this effect frequently leads to the ‘kill the messenger (of bad news) syndrome’. So the accusatory tone, as well as the prejudicial words may arise from this response.

To be clear. I did not hire any detective to investigate Bill Deagle. I have never been privy to any personal information about Bill Deagle, nor any information which is not publicly available on the internet. My first contact with Bill Deagle (by phone) was so negatively affecting of the state of my ki that I began my own research into Bill Deagle by the simple expedient of Google. Please note…I do my own research. I did not hire anyone and then ‘set them’ onto Deagle with orders to find ‘stuff that could be used against Deagle”. This is a lie. ********. Let me state that again. The characterizations written by Bill Ryan are false, and offensive.

In the investigation that I did perform with Google, the second query that I used was “Dr + Bill + Deagle + fraud”. The results led me directly to the information that I passed on to Bill Ryan that he has misunderstood.

Further, Bill Ryan’s inability to understand his own bank account speaks more to his mental capacities, including judgement, than mine. And just because he cannot understand his bank account in no way reflects my ability to understand both arithmetic and complex mathematics (in many disciplines including banking/finance). Nor does it affect my ability to recognize ******** when I hear it.

Bill Ryan is correct in that I did not ask Bill Deagle’s permission to Google him. I did not feel the need. Was this underhanded? Not in my view.

In spite of Bill Ryan’s declaration to the contrary, I did very good research on Bill Deagle. The results of that research confirmed my initial reaction, and the matter was closed as far as I was concerned.

While I object to Bill Ryan’s characterization of my actions, he is probably correct about my motives. I do not trust Bill Deagle nor is information. And so sought evidence to support the feeling of lack of trust.

Some of the reasons I think Bill Deagle is full of ****:
Setting aside all of the issues raised by Bill Deagle’s past, both real and claimed, I need to note that Bill Deagle is putting out blatant misinformation in his Project Camelot interviews as well as other venues. Specifically he states that my view on pole shifts are incorrect, yet then goes onto describe the same outcome, but through a ‘walking pace’ pole shift without dealing with any of the physics involved… such as the inertia problem and the necessary 12+ planetary earthquake that will accompany ANY planetary crust movement. Further Bill Deagle’s scenario is NOT supported by any of the ancient descriptions of the pole shift from a human perspective. These are always described in ancient literature as cataclysmic. Bill Deagle characterization of the pole shift as a ‘walking pace event’ is also damned by his own words when he states that Japan would go under the waves even in such a ‘walking pace pole shift’. Also please note that the accredited physicist, Bill Ryan never questions any of the statements made by Bill Deagle for any supporting math or science. He merely accepts this information (and note my characterization as follows) hook, line and sinker.

Further, Bill Deagle claims that China is making masses of robots. Hmmm…for me that does not pass the smell test. The questions that instantly arise has to do with lack of evidence for material or brains being used thus by the Chinese. Then there is the issue of why, with 1.2 BILLION humans, and a centuries long history of considering human life as both cheap and expendable, would the Chinese change their basic cultural proclivities, and invest millions of dollars per robot?

Bill Deagle claims to be told by classified sources that underground cities are being completed in the USofA at the rate of 2/two every 11 days or so. Hmmm, then why is there not a price increase in concrete? Or water handling equipment as there always has been when local governments start digging big tunnels? What about all the other material to populate these cities? Is there secret buying from china to fill these cities with beds, and teevees, and gym equipment, and cooking pots and all the millions of tons of other things that humans require? If so, then why is china so poor? Why is all the shipping idled off the South China coast? Where is the global manufacturing boom that would accompany such activity? Where does the energy come from to build these 2/two underground cities every 11 days? What about mass changes in earth from all this underground activity? Perhaps I have missed the point. Maybe somewhere Bill Deagle explained that these cities were ‘ant cities’…or some other more plausible explanation. Basically my question is: if the underground cities exist as Deagle claims, where is there any, objective, real world evidence? Assuming that I am a very bad researcher because my surveys of materials and costs cannot find any support for these underground cities being built, the question is still begged, why has Bill Deagle never provided any evidence for any of his claims?


Also note that Bill Ryan proclaims Bill Deagle to be a good man and states his information to be trustworthy. In Bill Ryan’s opinion.

However, Bill Ryan would have no one in the woo-jo ‘question’ either the motives or the accuracy of anyone else. This is a pattern that has been evidenced by Bill Ryans support of D. Burish and Bill Deagle and his 'defense' mode when their veracity is questioned. Why Bill Ryan should (apparently) fear open dialogue is subject to very legitimate analysis and conjecture. The attitude comes across as arrogance (my characterization here) or outright fear in that he, apparently, has the right to proclaim someone a ‘true guy’, but no one is allowed to question his assertion. Why should Bill Ryan be allowed to ‘anoint’ those who are ‘true guys’ in the woo-woo world? In my universe, people, actions, and words stand for themselves, able to be held up, examined, even gnawed upon to see if they are real, and true…and if they need protection from such an inquiry, there is usually a pretty damn good reason hiding under the covers. Further, I find Bill Ryan’s insistence that Bill Deagle (and D. Burish) are true guys to be the very same tactic used by ThePowersThatBe to try to shove erroneous information into my mind my entire life. I resent it from TPTB, and I resent if from Bill Ryan.

Some woo-jo members may think this open letter is harsh and profane. I agree, it is both. The times are harsh and profane, and neither makes my statements wrong. And I have done nothing in this open letter that Bill Ryan has not himself done in both open letters, and his forum site. And I have deliberately tried to refrain from characterizing Bill Ryan's, or Bill Deagle's motivations in any way. I merely note my objection and refutations to their statements and positions....unlike Bill Ryan who castigates and accuses me both in tone and words.

In my opinion:
Time is short.
The woo-jo cannot afford the time and energy distraction of poseurs and disinfo agents, whatever their motives. My critical analysis tells me that both Bill Deagle and D Burish are such poseurs and disinfo agents.

Bill Ryan maligned me, and attacked my conclusions and motives. Bill Ryan has deliberately used words which do not reflect either my intent, my actions, or my conclusions. Further these words are accusatory, and demand a response. This is it. Bill Ryan brought this issue to the woo-jo with his public statements that I find to be personally offensive, and maligning.

I can easily set aside my personal reaction to Bill Deagle to objectively analyze his information. I have done so repeatedly. Each time I find that the conclusion is that what Bill Deagle says is not supported by even the most cursory of investigations, and no evidence has/is ever provided.

Yes, in my opinion, this is a snarky bit of writing. Yes, in my opinion, I am harsh, but I expect these same harsh and snarky standards to be applied to my work. I get attacked for the information I put out pretty continuously, and take umbrage at Bill Ryan saying that Bill Deagle is to not be analyzed or attacked for his information. Why? Because Deagle claims descent from Moses? Or claims to have been offered (in his own words) mastership of the planet by the Priory of Scion? Even if both claims were true, neither is a reason to avoid scrutinizing Bill Deagles’ information, in fact these would be just the reasons to do an extra thorough investigation of his claims.

Of course, I expect both Bill Ryan, Bill Deagle, and lots of other humans to respond to this. Such is necessary in these woo-jo disputes. Let each make up their own mind as to validity of arguments and statements. That is how an open, asymmetric social organization is created. Not through ordo ab chaos, but rather through continuous recharging of harmony within the chaotic environment.

Of course I am willing to have all the information and projections and forecasts that I publish investigated and analyzed. It is necessary that such a critical, discriminating mind be developed in every human on the internet. I put out our reports in as straight forward a manner as possible such that it will be able to be determined if these are accurate or ********. It is a case of intellectual honesty, if you will allow, even a personal integrity. I put what dates, and other discrete markers that are available, in our work to support that effort at intellectual honesty. Opinions will be individually formed about the accuracy and motives of my work here. That is as it should be. Examine, poke, prod and gnaw until universe reveals facts that can become the core of truth. The reader here would be foolish to take my word for any thing, just as I would be a damned fool to take Bill Deagle, or Bill Ryan’s information without a complete and critical analysis.

It has been Bill Ryan’s response to my critical analysis of Bill Deagle’s information, and stated personal opinion that I did not find Bill Deagle to be credible, that has set this whole stinky mess into manifesting. At first I thought to just bitch to Bill Ryan privately about his abusive language and accusations, and then let it go. However there are, in my opinion, larger issues involved that go to the heart of the woo-jo. I favor a critical, feet on the mat approach to the woo-woo world as it is so important and because time is short.

Bill Ryan has maligned me, and accused me. I am responding and calling him on it. Integrity is what is demonstrated Bill Ryan, the slings and arrows of critical examination that you take, and then prove your case, not what is proclaimed.

Ok, let us take this to the mats!

Of course Bill Ryan is invited to dialogue on this matter in any form he may so choose. Not that he requires my permission for anything….

Masa katsu (true victory is victory over oneself)!
Clif High of halfpasthuman.com

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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
Ruts can you please find the piece that Bill Ryan wrote regarding Cliff just so we have both sides of the story here.
Many thanks!

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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showpost.php?p=195329&postcount=23

Here the actual question from Seashore:

Quote:
Re: Bill Ryan's thread

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Bill.

I have a concern about the mission of Camelot witness Dr Bill Deagle being undermined by his critics.

Specifically I am referring to the fact that evidently Clif High of Half Past Human has said publicly that Dr Bill is a paid CIA agent. My understanding is that Clif bases this opinion on the fact that Dr Bill is a "non-starter" in Clif's data gathering which means that he does not resonate OR simply put, he is lying. This is what I've seen posted on a thread here at Avalon.

Can you address this at all? Is Clif High's technology and interpretation credible in your opinion?


Here is the reply - a little misleading, IMHO.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seashore
I have a concern about the mission of Camelot witness Dr Bill Deagle being undermined by his critics.

Specifically I am referring to the fact that evidently Clif High of Half Past Human has said publicly that Dr Bill is a paid CIA agent.

As best we understand, Clif High set a PI [Private Investigator] on Deagle's bank account without Deagle's knowledge or consent, with an instruction to look for something that could be used against him.

The PI found some income that he could not account for and Clif therefore assumed that he must be a paid agent.

It's an understatement to say that this is very dumb of Clif, who is normally a bright guy. If anyone looked in to my bank account, or yours, or anyone's, they would find things they didn't understand. I don't even understand my own bank statements sometimes.

And because this was all done without Deagle's consent, he was never asked if there was an innocent explanation.

Not good research - and very underhand. We should not be doing this to one another.

My solid opinion: Deagle is a very good man. We've spoken with him extensively, on and off record.

One amazing conversation I witnessed two years ago and have never forgotten (because I was physically in the room where Henry Deacon/ Arthur Neumann was talking with him on Skype) was Deagle and Henry comparing places and projects where they had both worked. Project names, codewords, clearances, everything. They figured out that they must have bumped into one another but couldn't recall where. The conversation lasted 45 minutes and was quite something else.

We've visited his house and met his wife and children. He's a huge-hearted soul with a brain the size of a small planet. He is also human. I respect him highly.


Another interesting tidbit further on page 3

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightpotential
If I may ask, I am wondering very much about what both you and Kerry think about Dan Burisch.

I would ask, do you and Kerry still 'believe in him' as a witness, and that the videos as still appear on your site are correct, or has your opinion changed (perhaps radically?) as to Dan Burisch as a reliable source?


We have no quarrel with Dan, and believe that much of his testimony is reliable. We've had this confirmed from others associated with http://danburisch.info (Don Deppeller's site) who've known him well for many years.

They confirm that his personal testimony is not fabricated, although the context and circumstances in which he operates are heavily controlled and influenced. For that reason his interviews are still on the Camelot site.

Kerry and I are sorry for the loss of another friend and do NOT fully understand the reasons for this. Almost nothing of what was written on Eagles Disobey had any resemblance to the truth, and much was heavily fictionalized (no better word to use). But Dan did not write that material himself. Our stance was to continue our work.


A bit off topic but ATS seems to be having lots of infighting amongst themselves as well.

Sign of the times? :dunno

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Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:18 am
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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
ATS has always had infighting off & on no big surprise there they are a huge forum and its to be expected...

Thaks for digging that up Blue I appreciate it.

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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
From godawful... http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 929802/pg2

**warning language**

Thought this was interesting.... Leo
------------------------------------
baldrishi
User ID: 581357
11/25/2009 11:39 AM

Re: What happend to Cliff High? Quote

i live in tenino washington state. About 20 miles from clif. I was in AF avionic and net tech service group with Igor, who is clif's assistant in the web bots. Igor runs the servers. Igor recently moved over to eastern washington in the far north where he is less than 20 minutes from some huge caves that are at 7288 feet. He did so because of the data. I talked with igor a few days ago. He comes back one week every 7 for his other job. He and i had a few beers down at the Spar and he says that the shit is really coming, and that he has seen the photos that were sent to clif from antarctica. These photos show huge pyramids bigger than anything in egypt and they have sea mud frozen to 2 of their sides. There are also frozen bones and stuff in the mud. The picutres show bones and skulls and stuff sticking out of the mud as they washed it off part of the pyramid near the door way. it really freaked igor out and now he is getting ready for 2012.

igor says that clif will produce one more report but probably will do no nore radio or interviews. Clif is working hard on his small boat that is 26 feet.

But the big deal is that some people with money have come to clif to pay him to supervise building some boats. clif has been a shipwright and boat builder. His first jobs were boat building on east coast then up here. He has built 9 boats that i know of and he has 3 that he keeps around. A kyack and an umiack and now this survival pod. I have seen the new boat which he calls 'half past one' . It is being wrapped with kevlar in the boat resin and is able to be sealed air tight. Really cool survival pod.

igor says no more interviews since clif thinks time is short and he does not like repeating him self for stupid people that don't listen the first time.

clif and igor think that the data shows really really really rough shit next year. They are doing things to get ready for the first half of 2010. I have nver seen igor do so much work Even Igor's wife is now working on preps.

Igor also thinks that the dot mils are watching him and clif really hard. He is paranoid anyway, but when we went to dinner at the Spar we were followed by a black ford suv both down there and then back to the hotel where i dropped igor off. The suv stayed there in down town oly and did not follow me home. But id was there waiting for us at the train station out toward yelm. They knew he was coming and were waiting to tail him.

so no more clif on radio.

the fucktards that think clif is making money on this are full of shit. He is broke all the time since he gives away all his money and has for years. He even gave me money last year when i was laid off for half a year. He supports a bunch of his relatives who are out of work and have no chance of new jobs and no more unemployment. Clif lives in a litte tiny house where he takes care of his wife and their 2 big dogs and all kinds of criters that live on his small land. He works really hard on the reports. I have been trown off his place when i made the mistake of interrupting him and igor once when the data was running.

clif walks his talk like nobody i ever met before. Any body that says different needs to talk with anybody in oly who knows him.

-----------------

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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
:dontcare

Gotta admit to having absolutely no interest in lying Bill Ryan, L2L.

Sorry.

After reading through this, it affirmed my previous decision to walk away from this crap a long time ago.

LOL

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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
Dear Everybody,

Some artistic types tend to be a little defensive. While it is nice that Ryan is loyal, he probably should check out what Cliff found on GOOGLE before he lambasted him. Not to wade in here, but I have always found Deagle's gloom and doom, "they are winning" stuff augmented with his ads for his health products to be a bit too self-serving.

MK





L2L wrote:
First off here is the open letter from Cliff High to Bill Ryan form the Camelot Forum, I cannot find teh discussion regarding it, can someone post it if they find it please and thanks!

Once again Bill is caught making false claims, just like he did with Serpo :nono
Why is everyone letting Bill off when it comes to Serpo anyways :dunno where's Shawnna when I need her...

When will Bill ever learn that to make accusations like he as against Cliff you need PROOF not hearsay :shakehead
I think I am going back to my original assesment of Bill Ryan which is that he is not the best investigator because he goes on half truths and hearsay...

==================================

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December 14, 2009

Open Letter to Bill Ryan (and Kerry Cassidy) at Project Camelot and interested members of the Woo-jo.

In the martial arts, especially within those arts of Japanese descent, the place in which one practices their art is called a dojo. The ‘do’ part means ‘path’, while the ‘jo’ part means ‘place’, so the whole translates into ‘place of the (practice) of the path (or ‘way’).

Here at Halfpasthuman, we recognize that what we have labeled as the ‘woo woo world’ exists within a virtual space that we call the ‘woo-jo’.

As within any dojo, conflicts and contention arise. In martial arts dojo’s, such conflicts are dealt with as soon as they arise or they fester and destroy harmony in a very delicate enviroment filled with weapons and deadly skills. In the martial arts, frequently these disputes are brought to the mat in an open fashion before all members of the dojo as all form a community, and thus all are stakeholders in the harmony of the dojo. Thus are the energies dispersed, and opportunities created for harmonization to continue.

Such a conflict has arisen between Bill Ryan (specifically) at Project Camelot and myself. Bill has a thread in his forum at Project Avalon, in which he responds to a question about why I (clif high) think Dr. Bill Deagle is full of **** as a woo-woo personality. I had previously made public statements that I found Bill Deagle’s information to be questionable at best. This caused a question to Bill Ryan of Project Camelot (http://www.projectcamelot.org/) to which he responded.

Bill Ryans’ response to the questioner can be read at their Project Avalon forum, and also below in quotes….
“As best we understand, Clif High set a PI [Private Investigator] on Deagle's bank account without Deagle's knowledge or consent, with an instruction to look for something that could be used against him.

The PI found some income that he could not account for and Clif therefore assumed that he must be a paid agent.

It's an understatement to say that this is very dumb of Clif, who is normally a bright guy. If anyone looked in to my bank account, or yours, or anyone's, they would find things they didn't understand. I don't even understand my own bank statements sometimes.

And because this was all done without Deagle's consent, he was never asked if there was an innocent explanation.

Not good research - and very underhand. We should not be doing this to one another.

My solid opinion: Deagle is a very good man. We've spoken with him extensively, on and off record.

One amazing conversation I witnessed two years ago and have never forgotten (because I was physically in the room where Henry Deacon/ Arthur Neumann was talking with him on Skype) was Deagle and Henry comparing places and projects where they had both worked. Project names, codewords, clearances, everything. They figured out that they must have bumped into one another but couldn't recall where. The conversation lasted 45 minutes and was quite something else.

We've visited his house and met his wife and children. He's a huge-hearted soul with a brain the size of a small planet. He is also human. I respect him highly.”

**** end quoted material

This is incorrect information. I did not hire any PI, nor did I ‘set’ such a person onto Deagle. I find the entire statement made by Bill Ryan here is pejorative in both tone and word selection. His ‘understanding’ is factually wrong. His assumptions about my analytical abilities are wrong. Please re-read Bill Ryan’s statement and note the words used. The tone and words are offensive. The factual ‘errors’ are incriminating and further, Bill Ryan is directly accusatory.

I would have thought that, given the recent problems cited by Bill Ryan himself in his Open Letter to Jeff Rense, as well as the awful treatment that he, himself, has suffered at the digital pen of D. Burish, that he would have been a bit more sensitive in his response to these questions. But I guess not...

I do understand that Bill Ryan has a large energy and emotional investment into the perceived bona fides of the infamous Dr. Bill Deagle. I do understand that any perceived attacks, in a psychology sense, against objects or personalities with which the ego has identified, are treated by the ego as attacks on that ego itself, and that this effect frequently leads to the ‘kill the messenger (of bad news) syndrome’. So the accusatory tone, as well as the prejudicial words may arise from this response.

To be clear. I did not hire any detective to investigate Bill Deagle. I have never been privy to any personal information about Bill Deagle, nor any information which is not publicly available on the internet. My first contact with Bill Deagle (by phone) was so negatively affecting of the state of my ki that I began my own research into Bill Deagle by the simple expedient of Google. Please note…I do my own research. I did not hire anyone and then ‘set them’ onto Deagle with orders to find ‘stuff that could be used against Deagle”. This is a lie. ********. Let me state that again. The characterizations written by Bill Ryan are false, and offensive.

In the investigation that I did perform with Google, the second query that I used was “Dr + Bill + Deagle + fraud”. The results led me directly to the information that I passed on to Bill Ryan that he has misunderstood.

Further, Bill Ryan’s inability to understand his own bank account speaks more to his mental capacities, including judgement, than mine. And just because he cannot understand his bank account in no way reflects my ability to understand both arithmetic and complex mathematics (in many disciplines including banking/finance). Nor does it affect my ability to recognize ******** when I hear it.

Bill Ryan is correct in that I did not ask Bill Deagle’s permission to Google him. I did not feel the need. Was this underhanded? Not in my view.

In spite of Bill Ryan’s declaration to the contrary, I did very good research on Bill Deagle. The results of that research confirmed my initial reaction, and the matter was closed as far as I was concerned.

While I object to Bill Ryan’s characterization of my actions, he is probably correct about my motives. I do not trust Bill Deagle nor is information. And so sought evidence to support the feeling of lack of trust.

Some of the reasons I think Bill Deagle is full of ****:
Setting aside all of the issues raised by Bill Deagle’s past, both real and claimed, I need to note that Bill Deagle is putting out blatant misinformation in his Project Camelot interviews as well as other venues. Specifically he states that my view on pole shifts are incorrect, yet then goes onto describe the same outcome, but through a ‘walking pace’ pole shift without dealing with any of the physics involved… such as the inertia problem and the necessary 12+ planetary earthquake that will accompany ANY planetary crust movement. Further Bill Deagle’s scenario is NOT supported by any of the ancient descriptions of the pole shift from a human perspective. These are always described in ancient literature as cataclysmic. Bill Deagle characterization of the pole shift as a ‘walking pace event’ is also damned by his own words when he states that Japan would go under the waves even in such a ‘walking pace pole shift’. Also please note that the accredited physicist, Bill Ryan never questions any of the statements made by Bill Deagle for any supporting math or science. He merely accepts this information (and note my characterization as follows) hook, line and sinker.

Further, Bill Deagle claims that China is making masses of robots. Hmmm…for me that does not pass the smell test. The questions that instantly arise has to do with lack of evidence for material or brains being used thus by the Chinese. Then there is the issue of why, with 1.2 BILLION humans, and a centuries long history of considering human life as both cheap and expendable, would the Chinese change their basic cultural proclivities, and invest millions of dollars per robot?

Bill Deagle claims to be told by classified sources that underground cities are being completed in the USofA at the rate of 2/two every 11 days or so. Hmmm, then why is there not a price increase in concrete? Or water handling equipment as there always has been when local governments start digging big tunnels? What about all the other material to populate these cities? Is there secret buying from china to fill these cities with beds, and teevees, and gym equipment, and cooking pots and all the millions of tons of other things that humans require? If so, then why is china so poor? Why is all the shipping idled off the South China coast? Where is the global manufacturing boom that would accompany such activity? Where does the energy come from to build these 2/two underground cities every 11 days? What about mass changes in earth from all this underground activity? Perhaps I have missed the point. Maybe somewhere Bill Deagle explained that these cities were ‘ant cities’…or some other more plausible explanation. Basically my question is: if the underground cities exist as Deagle claims, where is there any, objective, real world evidence? Assuming that I am a very bad researcher because my surveys of materials and costs cannot find any support for these underground cities being built, the question is still begged, why has Bill Deagle never provided any evidence for any of his claims?


Also note that Bill Ryan proclaims Bill Deagle to be a good man and states his information to be trustworthy. In Bill Ryan’s opinion.

However, Bill Ryan would have no one in the woo-jo ‘question’ either the motives or the accuracy of anyone else. This is a pattern that has been evidenced by Bill Ryans support of D. Burish and Bill Deagle and his 'defense' mode when their veracity is questioned. Why Bill Ryan should (apparently) fear open dialogue is subject to very legitimate analysis and conjecture. The attitude comes across as arrogance (my characterization here) or outright fear in that he, apparently, has the right to proclaim someone a ‘true guy’, but no one is allowed to question his assertion. Why should Bill Ryan be allowed to ‘anoint’ those who are ‘true guys’ in the woo-woo world? In my universe, people, actions, and words stand for themselves, able to be held up, examined, even gnawed upon to see if they are real, and true…and if they need protection from such an inquiry, there is usually a pretty damn good reason hiding under the covers. Further, I find Bill Ryan’s insistence that Bill Deagle (and D. Burish) are true guys to be the very same tactic used by ThePowersThatBe to try to shove erroneous information into my mind my entire life. I resent it from TPTB, and I resent if from Bill Ryan.

Some woo-jo members may think this open letter is harsh and profane. I agree, it is both. The times are harsh and profane, and neither makes my statements wrong. And I have done nothing in this open letter that Bill Ryan has not himself done in both open letters, and his forum site. And I have deliberately tried to refrain from characterizing Bill Ryan's, or Bill Deagle's motivations in any way. I merely note my objection and refutations to their statements and positions....unlike Bill Ryan who castigates and accuses me both in tone and words.

In my opinion:
Time is short.
The woo-jo cannot afford the time and energy distraction of poseurs and disinfo agents, whatever their motives. My critical analysis tells me that both Bill Deagle and D Burish are such poseurs and disinfo agents.

Bill Ryan maligned me, and attacked my conclusions and motives. Bill Ryan has deliberately used words which do not reflect either my intent, my actions, or my conclusions. Further these words are accusatory, and demand a response. This is it. Bill Ryan brought this issue to the woo-jo with his public statements that I find to be personally offensive, and maligning.

I can easily set aside my personal reaction to Bill Deagle to objectively analyze his information. I have done so repeatedly. Each time I find that the conclusion is that what Bill Deagle says is not supported by even the most cursory of investigations, and no evidence has/is ever provided.

Yes, in my opinion, this is a snarky bit of writing. Yes, in my opinion, I am harsh, but I expect these same harsh and snarky standards to be applied to my work. I get attacked for the information I put out pretty continuously, and take umbrage at Bill Ryan saying that Bill Deagle is to not be analyzed or attacked for his information. Why? Because Deagle claims descent from Moses? Or claims to have been offered (in his own words) mastership of the planet by the Priory of Scion? Even if both claims were true, neither is a reason to avoid scrutinizing Bill Deagles’ information, in fact these would be just the reasons to do an extra thorough investigation of his claims.

Of course, I expect both Bill Ryan, Bill Deagle, and lots of other humans to respond to this. Such is necessary in these woo-jo disputes. Let each make up their own mind as to validity of arguments and statements. That is how an open, asymmetric social organization is created. Not through ordo ab chaos, but rather through continuous recharging of harmony within the chaotic environment.

Of course I am willing to have all the information and projections and forecasts that I publish investigated and analyzed. It is necessary that such a critical, discriminating mind be developed in every human on the internet. I put out our reports in as straight forward a manner as possible such that it will be able to be determined if these are accurate or ********. It is a case of intellectual honesty, if you will allow, even a personal integrity. I put what dates, and other discrete markers that are available, in our work to support that effort at intellectual honesty. Opinions will be individually formed about the accuracy and motives of my work here. That is as it should be. Examine, poke, prod and gnaw until universe reveals facts that can become the core of truth. The reader here would be foolish to take my word for any thing, just as I would be a damned fool to take Bill Deagle, or Bill Ryan’s information without a complete and critical analysis.

It has been Bill Ryan’s response to my critical analysis of Bill Deagle’s information, and stated personal opinion that I did not find Bill Deagle to be credible, that has set this whole stinky mess into manifesting. At first I thought to just bitch to Bill Ryan privately about his abusive language and accusations, and then let it go. However there are, in my opinion, larger issues involved that go to the heart of the woo-jo. I favor a critical, feet on the mat approach to the woo-woo world as it is so important and because time is short.

Bill Ryan has maligned me, and accused me. I am responding and calling him on it. Integrity is what is demonstrated Bill Ryan, the slings and arrows of critical examination that you take, and then prove your case, not what is proclaimed.

Ok, let us take this to the mats!

Of course Bill Ryan is invited to dialogue on this matter in any form he may so choose. Not that he requires my permission for anything….

Masa katsu (true victory is victory over oneself)!
Clif High of halfpasthuman.com

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Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:39 am
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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
Quote:
Some artistic types tend to be a little defensive. While it is nice that Ryan is loyal, he probably should check out what Cliff found on GOOGLE before he lambasted him. Not to wade in here, but I have always found Deagle's gloom and doom, "they are winning" stuff augmented with his ads for his health products to be a bit too self-serving.

MK


Thanks, Madame! Several of us, myself included, have not really followed this topic and are trying to catch up - so your insight is welcome.

Thanks again! :wavey

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Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:25 am
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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan over DEAGLE
rutsuyasun wrote:
Mizar, what forum(s) can we follow this on? Thanks for the heads up - I'm very interested. TIA



I went to halfpasthuman.com and read Cliff's comment. Then I googled the terms that he mentioned. I posted a small fraction of what I found in the political discussion area. (sorry for goofing up like that).

Evidently, Deagle has some "issues" with his credibility in several regards.

MK

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Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:48 am
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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
Quote:
Leorising
[ Post details ] Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:29 pm

Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
From godawful... http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 929802/pg2

**warning language**

Thought this was interesting.... Leo
------------------------------------
baldrishi
User ID: 581357
11/25/2009 11:39 AM

Re: What happend to Cliff High? Quote

i live in tenino washington state. About 20 miles from clif. I was in AF avionic and net tech service group with Igor, who is clif's assistant in the web bots. Igor runs the servers. Igor recently moved over to eastern washington in the far north where he is less than 20 minutes from some huge caves that are at 7288 feet. He did so because of the data. I talked with igor a few days ago. He comes back one week every 7 for his other job. He and i had a few beers down at the Spar and he says that the shit is really coming, and that he has seen the photos that were sent to clif from antarctica. These photos show huge pyramids bigger than anything in egypt and they have sea mud frozen to 2 of their sides. There are also frozen bones and stuff in the mud. The picutres show bones and skulls and stuff sticking out of the mud as they washed it off part of the pyramid near the door way. it really freaked igor out and now he is getting ready for 2012.

igor says that clif will produce one more report but probably will do no nore radio or interviews. Clif is working hard on his small boat that is 26 feet.

But the big deal is that some people with money have come to clif to pay him to supervise building some boats. clif has been a shipwright and boat builder. His first jobs were boat building on east coast then up here. He has built 9 boats that i know of and he has 3 that he keeps around. A kyack and an umiack and now this survival pod. I have seen the new boat which he calls 'half past one' . It is being wrapped with kevlar in the boat resin and is able to be sealed air tight. Really cool survival pod.

igor says no more interviews since clif thinks time is short and he does not like repeating him self for stupid people that don't listen the first time.

clif and igor think that the data shows really really really rough shit next year. They are doing things to get ready for the first half of 2010. I have nver seen igor do so much work Even Igor's wife is now working on preps.

Igor also thinks that the dot mils are watching him and clif really hard. He is paranoid anyway, but when we went to dinner at the Spar we were followed by a black ford suv both down there and then back to the hotel where i dropped igor off. The suv stayed there in down town oly and did not follow me home. But id was there waiting for us at the train station out toward yelm. They knew he was coming and were waiting to tail him.

so no more clif on radio.

the fucktards that think clif is making money on this are full of shit. He is broke all the time since he gives away all his money and has for years. He even gave me money last year when i was laid off for half a year. He supports a bunch of his relatives who are out of work and have no chance of new jobs and no more unemployment. Clif lives in a litte tiny house where he takes care of his wife and their 2 big dogs and all kinds of criters that live on his small land. He works really hard on the reports. I have been trown off his place when i made the mistake of interrupting him and igor once when the data was running.

clif walks his talk like nobody i ever met before. Any body that says different needs to talk with anybody in oly who knows him.


Thanks Leo for posting this, I happen to like Cliff, though I can see where L is coming from. It is too bad we won't hear him on the radio again. I hope he changes his mind.

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 Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
Ha! I checked out HPH site and he is doing shows into Jan, so far. So maybe the poster from GLP misunderstood. I found one for the 12th I haven't heard.

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Post Re: Battle Royale, Clif High, Vs Bill Ryan
Siam wrote:
So maybe the poster from GLP misunderstood. I found one for the 12th I haven't heard.


Gee now there's a shocker, a poster @ GLOP that mis-understood something :awe

:roflmao :roflmao

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