It is currently Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:02 am



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
 Bible Translations - Ruts and Sky? 
Author Message
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:59 am
Posts: 6532
Location: Friendswood, TX
Post Bible Translations - Ruts and Sky?
Thirty-one weeks ago, I downloaded a 52 week Bible Reading Plan from the web and have been reading The Devotional Bible: Experiencing the Heart of Jesus edited by Max Lucado every day.

Bit of background:

Max Lucado is a prolific American Christian author and pastor of Oak Hills Church in San Antonio, TX. Oak Hills is affiliated with The Church of Christ.

My DSIL gave this study Bible to me a couple of years ago for Christmas. I know, I know shoulda read it sooner. :oops

Uh hmmm

The Bible Reading Plan I am using is broken up into the following areas:

Sunday - Epistles

Monday - The Law

Tuesday - History

Wednesday - Psalms

Thursday - Poetry

Friday - Prophecy

Saturday - Gospels.

It isn't one of those massive "start with Genesis" and move forward deals.

So far, it has been a very interesting journey, however, I have found some jarring notes in this Bible. Some things I had never heard of before.

As with most folks my age, I was given a King James version of the Bible at my baptism/confirmation (I was not baptized as an infant but rather at the age of 10). So I am very familiar with that Bible.

I did some searching on the Internet and found some advice about using different study Bibles to get an overall view of Scripture. :hmm :huh

Soooo, I just ordered The Wesley Study Bible and received it today. This Bible is a study Bible that was edited and authored in the John Wesley tradition by Methodist ministers.

I went back and re-read 1 Thes 1:1-7.

Max Lucado:

Quote:
From Paul, Silas and Timothy.
To the church in Thessalonica, the church in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
Grace and peace to you.

The Faith of the Thessalonians
We always thank God for all of you and mention you when we pray. We continually recall before God our Father the things you have done because of your faith and the work you have done because of your love. And we thank him that you continue to be strong because of your hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Brothers and sisters, God loves you and we know he has chosen you, because the Good News we brought to you came not only with words, but with power, with the Holy Spirit, and with sure knowledge that it is true. Also you know how we lived when we were with you in order to help you. And you became like us and like the Lord. You suffered much, but still you accepted the teaching with the joy that comes from the Holy Spirit.


The Wesley Study Bible:

Quote:
Salutation
Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace.

The Thessalonians Faith and Example
We always give thanks to God for all of you and mention you in our prayers, constantly remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. For we know, brothers and sisters beloved by God, that he has chosen you, because our message of the gospel came to you not in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of persons we proved to be among you for your sake. And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for in spite of persecution you received the word with joy inspired by the Holy Spirit, so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achia.


King James Version:

Quote:
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; 3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; 4 Knowing , brethren beloved , your election of God. 5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. 6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: 7 So that ye were examples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.


Sky and Ruts - what do you make of this?

:hmm

Am I just making a mountain out of a mole hill here?

_________________
The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little. - FDR


Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:24 pm
Profile
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:55 am
Posts: 3355
Location: 30 clicks N of 3030
Post Re: Bible Translations - Ruts and Sky?
Can I add to your perspective??

Quote:
NWT: [New World Translation] (My favourite as it has the Names of God retained)

1 Paul and Silvanus a and Timothy to the congregation of the Thessalonians in union with God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace. 2 We always thank God when we make mention concerning all of YOU in our prayers, 3 for we bear incessantly in mind YOUR faithful work f and YOUR loving labour and YOUR endurance due to YOUR hope g in our Lord Jesus Christ before our God and Father. 4 For we know, brothers loved by God, his choosing of YOU, 5 because the good news we preach did not turn up among YOU with speech alone but also with power a and with holy spirit and strong conviction, just as YOU know what sort of men we became to YOU for YOUR sakes; 6 and YOU became imitators of us and of the Lord, seeing that YOU accepted the word under much tribulation with joy of holy spirit, 7 so that YOU came to be an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia.



Quote:
NJB: [New Jerusalem Bible] (I use this for a study reference - as it is translation of the Vulgate)

1Th 1:1 Paul, Silvanus and Timothy, to the Church in Thessalonica which is in God the Father and the Lord
Jesus Christ. Grace to you and peace.
1Th 1:2 We always thank God for you all, mentioning you in our prayers continually.
1Th 1:3 We remember before our God and Father how active is the faith, how unsparing the love, how
persevering the hope which you have from our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 1:4 We know, brothers loved by God, that you have been chosen,
1Th 1:5 because our gospel came to you not only in words, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with
great effect. And you observed the sort of life we lived when we were with you, which was for your sake.
1Th 1:6 You took us and the Lord as your model, welcoming the word with the joy of the Holy Spirit in spite of
great hardship.
1Th 1:7 And so you became an example to all believers in Macedonia and Achaia.


Quote:
CPD: [Catholic Public Domain version- Vulgate translation with DRB support]

[1 Thessalonians 1] {1:1} Paul and Sylvanus and Timothy, to the church of the Thessalonians, in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. {1:2} Grace and peace to you. We give thanks to God always for all of you, keeping the memory of you in our prayers without ceasing, {1:3} remembering your work of faith, and hardship, and charity, and enduring hope, in our Lord Jesus Christ, before God our Father. {1:4} For we know, brothers, beloved of God, of your election. {1:5} For our Gospel has not been among you in word alone, but also in virtue, and in the Holy Spirit, and with a great fullness, in the same manner as you know we have acted among you for your sake. {1:6} And so, you became imitators of us and of the Lord, accepting the Word in the midst of great tribulation, but with the joy of the Holy Spirit. {1:7} So have you become a pattern for all who believe in Macedonia and in Achaia.



Quote:
DRB: [Douay-Rheims Bible with Challoner Notes]

He gives thanks for the grace bestowed on the Thessalonians.

[1] Paul and Sylvanus and Timothy: to the church of the Thessalonians, in God the Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ. [2] Grace be to you and peace. We give thanks to God always for you all; making a remembrance of you in our prayers without ceasing, [3] Being mindful of the work of your faith, and labour, and charity, and of the enduring of the hope of our Lord Jesus Christ before God and our Father: [4] Knowing, brethren beloved of God, your election: [5] For our gospel hath not been unto you in word only, but in power also, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much fulness, as you know what manner of men we have been among you for your sakes.

[6] And you became followers of us, and of the Lord; receiving the word in much tribulation, with joy of the Holy Ghost: [7] So that you were made a pattern to all that believe in Macedonia and in Achaia.



Many ways to look at the translations - so if you are a true student - you compare or you go directly to the greek original scripts as captured by the authors and translate yourself (I use Google - sometimes...as it has odd meanings) and then you take council in prayer if you are uncertain.

My personal vote is - I read the NJB and the NWT side by side...... ;)

_________________
We all have the choice to exercise Free Will.
Omnia Vincit Veritas
"Ignis natura Renovatur Integram"


Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:07 am
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:59 am
Posts: 6532
Location: Friendswood, TX
Post Re: Bible Translations - Ruts and Sky?
Thanks, Sky. That is exactly what I will do.

_________________
The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little. - FDR


Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:46 am
Profile
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:21 am
Posts: 2748
Post Re: Bible Translations - Ruts and Sky?
I read through all the selections, and what I see is the same message couched in various differences of language, but the essence of the meaning here does not differ from one passage to another.

I have questions myself about translation, but they are centered on trying to know exactly what Jesus said in certain instances - how can we know this? How can we discern his words from the translations written by the authors of the Gospels, never mind how the authors are translated, for we know that Jesus spoke mostly in Aramaic, though it is thought that he knew some Greek as it was the "universal language" of the area, and of course Hebrew from the Scrolls. He might even have spoken a little Latin.

Did all the authors of the Gospels speak Aramaic? Can we depend on their translation from Aramaic to Greek to be an accurate rendering of Jesus' words?

Then of course we have to be aware that some translations are given a certain "bent" depending on the beliefs of the translator(s) and the religion for which they are doing the translation... not in all cases and I have no examples, it is more a feeling than a fact and I'm sure you both know far more about that than I. Catholicism in the United States I believe fails its members in the paucity of opportunities for community study of the Scriptures, at least in the parishes with which I am familiar. This is not so in other countries, at least in Latin American countries Bible study groups are a staple of the faith life of the communities.

I'm not sure if I have even touched on your concern, Blue; in short I see no problem, no major differences in meaning of the various translations of the selection you used as an example.

_________________
"A time comes when silence is betrayal." - Martin Luther King

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." ~ Albert Einstein


Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:15 pm
Profile YIM
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:59 am
Posts: 6532
Location: Friendswood, TX
Post Re: Bible Translations - Ruts and Sky?
I agree, Ruts. I think the message is the same just couched in differing religious viewpoints.

I spent more time today in my Wesley Study Bible. I must say that it is like being cuddled in a nice, warm afghan.

I realize now that what I was missing in the Lucado Bible is the Wesley emphasis on Grace. I find that in the Wesley Bible.

And isn't that really what Bible study is all about? Being comforted reading the Word?

Maybe I am completely wrong and I should read the other one simply because it does challenge my belief system.

But...

That warm, comforting afghan calls to me and I find myself wrapped in it and reading way more Scripture than what is "assigned" in today's reading. :mrgreen:

Yes, Ruts, I know exactly what you mean about the Catholic church's failure to provide communal Bible study for its members. I see this in my step-children and I truly believe this is one of the reasons DD does not actively challenge her husband over his increasing Messianic beliefs.

On another note, I downloaded to my Kindle a very interesting (at least to me) book that I am currently reading. It is called Reading the Early Church Fathers by James L. Papandrea. I must admit that I am totally ignorant of the early Church. Here I think the Catholic church does a much better job than the Protestant churches. At least in my church, we focus more on Martin Luther and the Reformation along with the life of John and Charles Wesley than we do the early Church. It is interesting to read about the Apostolic Fathers like Clement of Rome and Polycarp of Smyrna. It is also interesting to read about The Apologists like Justin Martyr and Tatian. I've just started reading about The Theologians particularly Ireneaus of Lyons.

Fascinating! I had no idea all of this was going on in the First and Second Centuries. :oops :mrgreen:

_________________
The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little. - FDR


Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:02 pm
Profile
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:55 am
Posts: 3355
Location: 30 clicks N of 3030
Post Re: Bible Translations - Ruts and Sky?
Very interesting discussion ladies.

Ruts - if you have not read any of the Nag Hammadi scrolls - I recommend it - as therein lies a lot of the texts captured by the disciples during Jesus' teachings (he had asked them to record it). anfd I especially Love the Pistus Sophia text as it describes a process that is very well suppressed by the "Church Fathers". We have a book from the Academy written by Dr Hurtak and his wife that they annotated - and it brings tears to my eyes in many instances when I discover the things humanity were supposed to know - but don't!

Blue - I discovered a collection of texts written about the Apocryphal Authors all put together around 1840 - 1940 on Scribd. I am not sure if you find this kinda history and research a part of your journey, but I do and I am fascinated by the opinions of the learned writers of these documents and books - which I have down loaded a goodly sum to research and read for myself. If you do _ I shall share the link. The history of the establishment of the Word of God is an extremely interesting subject to me - and my dear mother who is a staunch Christian firmly fixed in Anti-New Age doctrines refuses to hear about my own reading/discovery and education into this history. The Gospels are full of intriguing dichotomies and statements when taken literally as history - can be very challenging to even make sense of - yet it is the known and "revealed" word.

I find it all an incredible journey of discovery - as it is part of our historical heritage and we should know more about it. :cool

_________________
We all have the choice to exercise Free Will.
Omnia Vincit Veritas
"Ignis natura Renovatur Integram"


Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:46 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forums/DivisionCore.