The Golden Thread

Pope Francis
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Author:  rutsuyasun [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Pope Francis

Is a new wind blowing into the Vatican from the west, from the Third World via Argentina's Pope Francis? Only time will tell but there are tantalizing hints that this may be so, whether a tempest or just a gentle breeze no one can say at this point.

Francis 'unblocks' Romero beatification, official says

A Vatican official responsible for the sainthood cause of Archbishop Oscar Romero of El Salvador announced Sunday that the cause has been "unblocked" by Pope Francis, suggesting that beatification of the assassinated prelate could come swiftly.


The Vatican's Congregation for the Causes of Saints has been studying the Romero case since 1996, after the church in El Salvador formally opened the procedure in 1990.

Romero was shot to death while saying Mass in El Salvador on March 24, 1980. * While he is seen as a hero to many because of his solidarity with the poor and his opposition to human rights abuses, his cause has also been viewed with suspicion in some quarters, partly because of Romero's links to the controversial liberation theology movement. (Controversial to some conservatives, including the Pope, a major step forward in the liberation of the poor to many who actually live and work in Latin and Central America.)

Although both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have said publicly that Romero was a martyr for the faith, there's also been some question as to whether his death meets the classic test for martyrdom of being killed in odium fidei, meaning "in hatred of the faith," or whether the motives were more social and political. If Romero is judged a martyr, he could be beatified without having a miracle attributed to his intercession.


Bishop Gregorio Rosa Chavez:
I know he (Pope Francis) is absolutely convinced that Romero is a saint and a martyr. Everything points to his beatification being on the cards,... although we follow God's time frame which is not the same as ours."

Bishop Paglia (in charge of promoting Romero's beatification):
Romero is an example of a pastor who gave his life for others. Beyond any canonical problems in terms of whether he died directly in odium fidei, Romero continues to be a point of reference for millions and millions of people, believers and non-believers alike. ... icial-says

*(Note: The assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero was orchestrated by the CIA and I have viewed documents online that verify this. Various high-up members of El Salvador's military vied for the distinction of killing him. The assassins were trained at the School of the Americas on the grounds of Fort Benning, GA.)

Author:  Bluebonnet [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

This is very interesting, Ruts. Thanks for bringing this topic forward.

I have seen some encouraging signs from him lately but was hesitant to bring up for discussion.

Author:  rutsuyasun [ Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

I know, me too, but I figured it is safe here in the Spiritual Zone.

Author:  L2L [ Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

rutsuyasun wrote:
I know, me too, but I figured it is safe here in the Spiritual Zone.

It is safe here Ruts that's why we made this section, to allow for civil discussion about religion and or the likes.

Those who do not like or believe can simply not read this section ;)

Author:  Sky [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Civil discussion comes from civil people.


Author:  Bluebonnet [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Pope Francis I Continues To Build “Poor Church For The Poor”
By Luis Landas on April 25th, 2013

We’re back on that papal beat today with news that Pope Francis I cancelled bonuses for all Vatican employees, instead ordering staff to donate to “charitable organizations” (Wall Street, take note).

It has been tradition for Vatican workers to receive a cash bonus upon the death of a Pope as well as another upon the election of a successor but, last Thursday (April 18), Pope Francis I nixed all that and even donated money directly from his personal charity budget. The move was, as the Vatican’s chief spokesman Reverend Federico Lombardi said last Thursday, “A sign of the church’s attention for the many people who are suffering from the global economic slowdown.”

Lombardi went on to say, “On account of the difficult situation of the general economy, it seemed neither possible nor opportune to burden Vatican institutions with a considerable unforeseen extraordinary expense.” And indeed it is quite an expense. When Pope John Paul II died in 2005, the Vatican’s 4,000-plus employees received a $1,300 bonus; and when Pope Benedict XVI was elected as his successor, they each received another $650. Vatican bonus expenditures totaled $7.8 million that year.

Compare that to the $19 million deficit the Vatican posted in 2011, and you can see how Pope Francis’ desire to make a “poor church for the poor” is economically sensible. In December last year, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone told the Vatican’s economists that the Holy See must proceed in “The gradual, but effective, reduction of costs in the face of a continuing inability to increase revenues.”

The bonus cuts were not too surprising, however, considering Pope Francis’ papacy is defined by his promotion of modesty and frugality within the church (if you need a refresher, check out our introduction from last month). The decision to redirect the funds comes only a week after Pope Francis put together a Curia task force to design and carry out papal administrative reform.


Read more here:

Author:  Bluebonnet [ Thu May 16, 2013 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Pope Francis Slams Global Financial System As 'Cult Of Money'

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis has denounced the global financial system, blasting the "cult of money" that he says is tyrannizing the poor and turning humans into expendable consumer goods.

In his first major speech on the subject, Francis demanded Thursday that financial and political leaders reform the global financial system to make it more ethical and concerned for the common good. He said: "Money has to serve, not to rule!" :clap

It's a message Francis delivered on many occasions when he was archbishop of Buenos Aires, and it's one that was frequently stressed by retired Pope Benedict XVI.

Francis, who has made clear the poor are his priority, made the comments as he greeted his first group of new ambassadors accredited to the Holy See.


Read more here:

Author:  L2L [ Sat May 18, 2013 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Now that is something i can applaud :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

Bluebonnet wrote:
Pope Francis Slams Global Financial System As 'Cult Of Money'

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis has denounced the global financial system, blasting the "cult of money" that he says is tyrannizing the poor and turning humans into expendable consumer goods.

In his first major speech on the subject, Francis demanded Thursday that financial and political leaders reform the global financial system to make it more ethical and concerned for the common good. He said: "Money has to serve, not to rule!" :clap

It's a message Francis delivered on many occasions when he was archbishop of Buenos Aires, and it's one that was frequently stressed by retired Pope Benedict XVI.

Francis, who has made clear the poor are his priority, made the comments as he greeted his first group of new ambassadors accredited to the Holy See.


Read more here:

Author:  Bluebonnet [ Sat May 18, 2013 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Pope Francis: “We all chat in church!”

May 18, 2013 By Deacon Greg Kandra

Specifically, he was talking about meddling and gossip. From his homily Saturday:

The Christian must overcome the temptation to “interfere in the lives of others,” was the exhortation of Pope Francis at Mass this morning at the Casa Santa Marta. The Pope also stressed that talk and envy do so much harm to the Christian community.

“What is it to you?” Pope Francis begin his homily referring to a question Jesus posed to Peter when he had meddled in the life of the disciple John, “whom Jesus loved.” Peter, the Pope pointed out, had “a dialogue of love” with the Lord, but then the dialogue “is diverted to another track,” and he also suffers from a temptation: “to interfere in the lives of others.” How do you say “vulgar,” said the Pope, Peter becomes “nosy”. Focus is therefore on two modes of this mix in the lives of others. First, the “comparison”, “to compare oneself with others.” When there is this comparison, Pope Francis said, “we end up in bitterness and even envy, but envy rusts the Christian community, “it brings much hurt,” the “devil wants that.” The second mode of this temptation, he added, is gossip. It begins “in an educated way,” but then we end up “feeling bad”.

“We all chat in Church! As Christians we chat! The chatter is hurtful? We hurt one another. It is as if we want to put each other down.: instead of growing one makes the other feel small while I feel great. That will not do! It seems nice to chat … I do not know why, but it looks nice. Like sweet of honey, right? You take one and then another, and another, and another, and in the end you have a stomach ache. And why ? The chatter is like that eh? It is ‘sweet at first and it ruins you, it ruins your soul! Rumours are destructive in the Church, they are destructive … It’s ‘a little’ like the spirit of Cain who killed his brother, his tongue; it kills his brother! ”

On this road, the Holy Father said, “we become Christians of good manners and bad habits.” But how do we do this ? Normally, Pope Francis noted, “we do three things”:

“We supply misinformation: we tell only half that suits us and not the other half, the other half we do not say because it is not convenient for us. Some smile … Is that true or not? Did you see that thing? It goes on. The second is defamation: When a person truly has a flaw, it is big, they tell it, ‘like a journalist’ … And the character of this person is ruined. And the third is the slander of saying things that are not true. It is like killing ones brother! All three – disinformation, defamation and slander – are sins! This is sin! It is to slap Jesus in the person of his children, his brothers. ”

That is why Jesus does with us what he did with Peter when he says: “What is it to you? Follow me, “The Lord in this instance” points the way “:

“‘This kind of talk will not do you any good, because it will just bring to the Church a spirit of destruction. Follow me! ‘. These are the beautiful words of Jesus, it is so clear, that he has so much love for us. As if to say: ‘Don’t have fantasies, believing that salvation is in the comparisons with others or in gossip. Salvation is to go behind me ‘. Following Jesus! Today we ask the Lord Jesus to give us this grace not to ever get involved in the lives of others, not to become Christians of good manners and bad habits, it is to follow Jesus, to walk behind Jesus on his way. And this is enough.

During his homily, Pope Francis also recalled an episode from the life of St. Therese who wondered why Jesus gave so much to one and not to another. The older sister then took a thimble and a glass and filled them with water and then asked Therese which of the two was more full. “But both are full,” said the future saint. Jesus, the Pope said, does this with us”, “he does not care if you’re big, you’re or small.” What interests him is “if you are filled with the love of Jesus.”

I'm getting to like this new Pope!

Author:  Bluebonnet [ Sat May 25, 2013 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Pope: Open the door to faith

(Vatican Radio) Those who approach the Church should find the doors open and not find people who want to control the faith. This is what the Pope said this morning during Mass in the Casa Santa Marta.

The day's Gospel tells us that Jesus rebukes the disciples who seek to remove children that people bring to the Lord to bless. "Jesus embraces them, kisses them, touches them, all of them. It tires Jesus and his disciples "want it to stop”. Jesus is indignant: "Jesus got angry, sometimes." And he says: "Let them come to me, do not hinder them. For the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these." "The faith of the People of God – observes the Pope - is a simple faith, a faith that is perhaps without much theology, but it has an inward theology that is not wrong, because the Spirit is behind it." The Pope mentions Vatican I and Vatican II, where it is said that "the holy people of God ... cannot err in matters of belief" (Lumen Gentium). And to explain this theological formulation he adds: "If you want to know who Mary is go to the theologian and he will tell you exactly who Mary is. But if you want to know how to love Mary go to the People of God who teach it better. " The people of God - continued the Pope - "are always asking for something closer to Jesus, they are sometimes a bit 'insistent in this. But it is the insistence of those who believe ":

"I remember once, coming out of the city of Salta, on the patronal feast, there was a humble lady who asked for a priest's blessing. The priest said, 'All right, but you were at the Mass' and explained the whole theology of blessing in the church. You did well: 'Ah, thank you father, yes father,' said the woman. When the priest had gone, the woman turned to another priest: 'Give me your blessing!'. All these words did not register with her, because she had another necessity: the need to be touched by the Lord. That is the faith that we always look for , this is the faith that brings the Holy Spirit. We must facilitate it, make it grow, help it grow. "

The Pope also mentioned the story of the blind man of Jericho, who was rebuked by the disciples because he cried to the Lord, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!"

"The Gospel says that they didn’t want him to shout, they wanted him not to shout but he wanted to shout more, why? Because he had faith in Jesus! The Holy Spirit had put faith in his heart. And they said, 'No, you cannot do this! You don’t shout to the Lord. Protocol does not allow it. And 'the second Person of the Trinity! Look what you do... 'as if they were saying that, right? ".

And think about the attitude of many Christians:

"Think of the good Christians, with good will, we think about the parish secretary, a secretary of the parish ... 'Good evening, good morning, the two of us - boyfriend and girlfriend - we want to get married'. And instead of saying, 'That's great!'. They say, 'Oh, well, have a seat. If you want the Mass, it costs a lot ... '. This, instead of receiving a good welcome- It is a good thing to get married! '- But instead they get this response:' Do you have the certificate of baptism, all right ... '. And they find a closed door. When this Christian and that Christian has the ability to open a door, thanking God for this fact of a new marriage ... We are many times controllers of faith, instead of becoming facilitators of the faith of the people. "

And 'there is always a temptation - said the Pope - "try and take possession of the Lord." And he tells another story:

"Think about a single mother who goes to church, in the parish and to the secretary she says: 'I want my child baptized'. And then this Christian, this Christian says: 'No, you cannot because you're not married!'. But look, this girl who had the courage to carry her pregnancy and not to return her son to the sender, what is it? A closed door! This is not zeal! It is far from the Lord! It does not open doors! And so when we are on this street, have this attitude, we do not do good to people, the people, the People of God, but Jesus instituted the seven sacraments with this attitude and we are establishing the eighth: the sacrament of pastoral customs! ".

"Jesus is indignant when he sees these things" - said the Pope - because those who suffer are "his faithful people, the people that he loves so much"

"We think today of Jesus, who always wants us all to be closer to Him, we think of the Holy People of God, a simple people, who want to get closer to Jesus and we think of so many Christians of goodwill who are wrong and that instead of opening a door they close the door of goodwill ... So we ask the Lord that all those who come to the Church find the doors open, find the doors open, open to meet this love of Jesus. We ask this grace.

Text from page of the Vatican Radio website

:heart :clap

Now if he could just address the US Congress, the President and all 50 governors - maybe we could get something done in this country! ;)

Author:  Bluebonnet [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Wasting food is like stealing from the poor, pope says

Pope Francis denounces the 'culture of waste' in an increasingly consumerist world

Reuters, Wednesday 5 June 2013 09.18 EDT

Pope Francis on Wednesday denounced what he called a "culture of waste" in an increasingly consumerist world and said throwing away good food was like stealing from poor people.

"Our grandparents used to make a point of not throwing away leftover food. Consumerism has made us accustomed to wasting food daily and we are unable to see its real value," Francis said at his weekly audience in St Peter's Square.

"Throwing away food is like stealing from the table of those who are poor and hungry," he said.

Since taking office in March, Pope Francis has said he wants the 1.2 billion-strong Roman Catholic Church to defend the poor and to practise greater austerity itself. He has also made several calls for global financial reform.

Around 1.3bn tonnes of food, or one-third of what is produced for human consumption, gets lost or wasted every year, according to the United Nations' food agency.


Read more here:


Author:  L2L [ Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

I am really starting to respect this man, maybe there is hope for this church....

Author:  rutsuyasun [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

I am cautiously optimistic, however, we must not forget what happened to John Paul I. That being said, I spoke with a friend the other day, a priest who is politically savvy (he had to be in order to try and affect change in the structure of the church and the government on behalf of the poor whom he serves). He also is cautiously optimistic. He likes the outward signs and signals the new pope is giving, a very definite and strong option for the poor, a call for those who serve the poor to live as they do, to do away with the trappings of riches that give the wrong message. He is waiting to see what structural changes the new pope will make in the church itself. He says that Pope Francis is very smart, and well able to deal with the political maze that is the makeup of the church in Rome. He hopes he will make real, effective changes, but is disappointed in his statement in regards to the women leadership of religious in the US.

See here for earlier discussion of this issue: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=4026&p=45291&hilit=women+leadership#p45291

Pope Francis has “reaffirmed” the reform of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) that was undertaken last year after a doctrinal assessment of the group found “serious doctrinal problems,” the Vatican announced in a communiqué on Monday.


The news that Pope Francis will continue the reform, launched under Pope Benedict, will likely upset many who had hoped for a more permissive approach under the new pontificate.

Complete article here: ... religious/

In my friend's opinion, the new pope should have conducted further investigation and communication with the women leaders of religious congregations in the US before making any statement about them. He believes the pontiff "made a mistake" in coming out in support of Benedict's censorship without carrying out his own discernment.

Author:  Bluebonnet [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

rutsuyasun wrote:
In my friend's opinion, the new pope should have conducted further investigation and communication with the women leaders of religious congregations in the US before making any statement about them. He believes the pontiff "made a mistake" in coming out in support of Benedict's censorship without carrying out his own discernment.

Ruts, I wholeheartedly agree with your friend. I, too, believe Pope Francis made a huge mistake in this.

I would prefer that he meet them somewhere in the middle ground. I truly believe these women are the way for the Church to heal itself from the pedophile scandals.

Author:  Bluebonnet [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Pope Francis Beethoven Concert No-Show, 'Snub" Stuns Cardinals, Sends Signal To Vatican
Reuters | By Philip Pullella
Posted: 06/24/2013 10:26 am EDT | Updated: 06/24/2013 5:10 pm EDT

VATICAN CITY, June 24 (Reuters) - A last-minute no-show by Pope Francis at a concert where he was to have been the guest of honour has sent another clear signal that he is going to do things his way and does not like the Vatican high life.

The gala classical concert on Saturday was scheduled before his election in March. But the white papal armchair set up in the presumption that he would be there remained empty.

Minutes before the concert was due to start, an archbishop told the crowd of cardinals and Italian dignitaries that an "urgent commitment that cannot be postponed" would prevent Francis from attending.

The prelates, assured that health was not the reason for the no-show, looked disoriented, realising that the message he wanted to send was that, with the Church in crisis, he - and perhaps they - had too much pastoral work to do to attend social events.

"It took us by surprise," said one Vatican source on Monday. "We are still in a period of growing pains. He is still learning how to be pope and we are still learning how he wants to do it."

"In Argentina, they probably knew not to arrange social events like concerts for him because he probably wouldn't go," said the source, who spoke anonymously because he is not authorised to discuss the issue.

The picture of the empty chair was used in many Italian papers, with Monday's Corriere della Sera newspaper calling his decision "a show of force" to illustrate the simple style he wants Church officials to embrace.

Since his election on March 13, Francis, the former cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina, has not spent a single night in the opulent and spacious papal apartments.


Read more here:

:clap :heart

Author:  rutsuyasun [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

I also found out why Pope Francis, as a Cardinal in Argentina, did not support Liberation Theology. Too many people and groups espousing positions not supported by the Church, extreme positions, had linked themselves with it, thus changing the message and image as originally intended by P. Gustavo Guitierrez. Examples: abortion rights at any stage of fetal development, same sex marriage, fringe politics, you get the idea. Of course in reality Pope Francis lived his faith totally in line with Guitierrez' option for the poor, which is the heart of his theology.

Author:  rutsuyasun [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

An excerpt from a speech given by Pope Francis at World Youth Day in Rio de Janeiro:

Pope Francis today at World Youth Day in Rio de Janeiro:

"We need saints without cassocks, without veils - we need saints with jeans and tennis shoes. We need saints that go to the movies that listen to music, that hang out with their friends. We need saints that place God in first place ahead of succeeding in any career. We need saints that look for time to pray every day and who know how to be in love with purity, chastity and all good things. We need saints - saints for the 21st century with a spirituality appropriate to our new time. We need saints that have a commitment to helping the poor and to make the needed social change. We need saints to live in the world, to sanctify the world and to not be afraid of living in the world by their presence in it. We need saints that drink Coca-Cola, that eat hot dogs, that surf the internet and that listen to their iPods. We need saints that love the Eucharist, that are not afraid or embarrassed to eat a pizza or drink a beer with their friends. We need saints who love the movies, dance, sports, theater. We need saints that are open sociable normal happy companions. We need saints who are in this world and who know how to enjoy the best in this world without being callous or mundane. We need saints."

Author:  L2L [ Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

This man is way ahead of his time and faith, I just hop his followers catch up to him

Author:  Bluebonnet [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Pope Francis' No. 2: Clerical celibacy is open to discussion
By F. Brinley Bruton, Staff Writer, NBC News

The Vatican’s new secretary of state has said that priestly celibacy is not church dogma and therefore open to discussion, marking a significant change in approach towards one of the thorniest issues facing the Roman Catholic Church.

"Celibacy is not an institution but look, it is also true that you can discuss (it) because as you say this is not a dogma, a dogma of the church," Archbishop Pietro Parolin said in response to a question during an interview with Venezuelan newspaper El Universal.

He added that while it was not dogma, clerical celibacy was a deeply entrenched Catholic tradition.

"The efforts that the church made to keep ecclesiastical celibacy, to impose ecclesiastical celibacy, have to be taken into consideration," Parolin said. "One cannot say simply that this belongs in the past."

As secretary of state, Parolin is the head of government and seen as the most powerful official at the Vatican after the pontiff.

Many of Pope Francis' predecessors had declared the subject off-limits.

“There has been a lot of resistance to discussing the issue of celibacy,” said Abigal Frymann, online editor and former foreign editor with U.K.-based Catholic weekly The Tablet. "[Parolin’s comments] open up a fascinating argument."

Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Holy See’s press office, said Parolin’s comments were "in line with the teachings of the church."

I don't understand this "the efforts that the church made to keep ecclesiastical celibacy, to impose ecclesiastical celibacy, have to be taken into consideration."


Author:  rutsuyasun [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Blue, you beat me to it! I was just going to post an article on this. :)

As to the sentence you questioned, I was trying to figure out what that means and I think I have a vague idea. For centuries, men have maintained their vow of celibacy which is, as I'm sure we all can agree, a major sacrifice. In the sixties, with a new wind blowing through the church from Vatican II, many men left the priesthood in order to marry. When I say "left the priesthood" I mean they gave up their rights to perform the sacraments and to act as priests. Once you are ordained a priest, nothing can change that; you are always a priest, and there are provisions made for laicized priests to say mass, hear confessions, etc. in extreme conditions.

However, there were, of course, many other men who stayed in the priesthood, who continued in the seminary, who joined the seminary, knowing what they were giving up but the call was strong enough for them to willingly commit to make that sacrifice. Now, if the church were to suddenly say that all those centuries of celibacy was a mistake, misguided, or however they phrased it, it would belittle the sacrifice of the men who were faithful priests.

A friend ( a priest) told me once of a conversation his sister was having with friends at her home, while he was sitting right there, and what she was saying was that celibacy was obsolete, that it had no merit, basically was worthless. Imagine how he felt hearing his own sister talking this way about a lifelong commitment he had made, and maintained, while many of his peers had left the priesthood or seminary. I was outraged on his behalf at her insensitivity. It was as if she were declaring his life worthless.

I think this is what was being cautioned against in that sentence; somehow, if the Church is to change it's view on celibacy, it will have to be done thoughtfully, in a way that it does not negate the lives of the many priests who were faithful to that call. Does that make any sense?

Author:  rutsuyasun [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

A few quotes from a different article to shed more light on the topic:

any consideration of the topic of celibacy should be approached from a position of maintaining unity within the church.

It is a great challenge for the Pope, because he is the one with the ministry of unity and all of those decisions must be made thinking of the unity of the church and not to divide it." way to avoid dividing the church over such matters is to open the discussion among all bishops, rather than keeping it within the Vatican's top leadership.

"It has always been said that the church is not a democracy," he said. "But it would be good during these times that there could be a more democratic spirit, in the sense of listening carefully, and I believe the Pope has made this one of the pontificate's objectives."

The above sentence, bolded, is almost as important as the acknowledgment that the Pope is willing to even consider and tolerate discussion of the matter of celibacy.

On Francis' thoughts before he became Pope:

As to Pope Francis' position on the issue, the online Slate magazine reported that he said in 2012 when he was still Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio that celibacy "is a matter of discipline, not faith" and "can change."

But the Pope added at the time, "I am in favor of maintaining celibacy, with all of its pros and cons, because we have ten centuries of good experiences rather than failures." ... z2emhf0dq8

I don't agree with him about the ten centuries of good experiences.As Pope I think he is acting now with a more open mind and with the good of the whole Church as his focus. I hope. I did not think this discussion would come up under his pontificate, so this is good news indeed. Cautious optimism.... we shall see.

Author:  Sky [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Seems to me to be an offer of "doing goodness" in the last mile of the journey.

Karma is karma and what they sowed they will reap.... :crazy

I have said it before and I will say it again: "We are here to learn the mysteries of Light" and then to work for the betterment of All humanity.

End of story.

Church business should be less political and one day hopefully exercise its prowess to the education for the soul.


Author:  Bluebonnet [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Very interesting. Thanks, Ruts and you, too, Sky!

I can't help but wonder how much the abuse scandal has played into this as well.


Author:  rutsuyasun [ Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis

Well, as we've said before, the abuse scandal was one of the two main reasons Benedict resigned. The issue of priests abusing children has always been used by some as an argument for allowing priests to marry, although psychologists say that the correlation of the two issues is low, ie a man who isn't really cut out for celibacy may have illicit sexual encounters, but will not automatically turn to pedophilia. However, a general amorphous "feeling" is out there that the way to keep priests from pedophilia is to allow them to marry - not true, but still a perception. I don't know how much, if anything, it had to do with Francis' decision to open up the issue of married priests. Just on a personal note I know off the top of my head of at least three good men who would love nothing better than to be allowed to resume their priestly duties, aided by the good women who now share their lives.

I understand what you mean, Sky, but I will take any step forward they will give and work with it. If the Church is to be relevant it must make changes. What is done is done, let's get on with it.

Author:  Bluebonnet [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pope Francis


You are absolutely right, Ruts. Pedophilia does not end with marriage.

Pope Francis tells atheists to abide by their own consciences
Lizzy Davies in Rome, Wednesday 11 September 2013 14.19 EDT

As letters to the editor go, it was certainly out of the ordinary, stretching to more than 2,500 words and not one of them veering on the irate or indignant. But the missive received by Eugenio Scalfari, co-founder and former editor of the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, nonetheless made it into print on Wednesday – on the front page and under the impressively brief byline of "Francesco".

Responding to a series of questions asked in the summer by Scalfari, who describes himself as an interested "non-believer", Pope Francis used his trademark conciliatory tone to discuss the Catholic church's attitude to atheists, urging those who do not share his faith to "abide by their own conscience" and reminding them God's mercy "has no limits".

Expressing the belief that it was important for Christians to engage in "a sincere and rigorous dialogue" with atheists, Francis recalled Scalfari had asked him whether God forgave those "who do not believe and do not seek to believe".

"Given – and this is the fundamental thing – that God's mercy has no limits, if He is approached with a sincere and repentant heart," the pope wrote, "the question for those who do not believe in God is to abide by their own conscience. There is sin, also for those who have no faith, in going against one's conscience. Listening to it and abiding by it means making up one's mind about what is good and evil."


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