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 The Golden Thread, Volume 3.6 2007 
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GT Truther

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Danny Jowenko is not only the top of his field in his homeland but he's in the top five world wide!

He opinion is must listen to.


Shady




Quote:
Aired on Dutch TV

Dutch demolition expert Danny Jowenko was shown video of the collapse of WTC 7 by a Dutch television crew which captured his first reactions to images of the collapse.

Before seeing the video, Jowenko had not been aware that a THIRD building collapsed in the World Trade Center complex on September 11.

In fact, he initially had difficulty believing the collapse of a third building actually happened.

Viewing the video, he had no doubt that was brought down by a controlled demolition.

Relating the logistics required to carry out such a task raises the obvious question: When were these charges placed?

Could the estimated team of 30 demolition technicians have placed the charges after the morning's attack while the building was on fire? Jowenko's professional bafflement is clearly visible.

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T3_mmGvfQQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgu-g6FFjrU


Notes about additional video

Also baffling is how aluminum hulled planes penetrated the solid steel structure of the World Trade Center towers.

* The towers collapsed.

* There was one large and dramatic explosion in each building (reported) followed by numerous additional explosions (unreported.)

* There were large commercial planes in the area.

That's all we know for sure.


Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:27 am
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Quote:
Rumours of Impending Crash
Anonymous – September 9, 2007

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=7147


This message was sent me by a friend who is also a friend of Marjorie, so this is not a rumor. I have known Marjorie for 10 or 15 years and she is a very credible, knowledgeable oil trader. You might want to be prepared as we go through these chaotic days before the changes to the new banking system occur. Love, blessings & peace, Suzy...

Marjorie, my long time friend and oil trader on Wall St. with a seat on the Exchange (she knows her stuff), went to a power lunch today with key subprime lenders from Morgan Stanley, Shearson, you name it. What she came away with was bleak.

They said this is the "setup" time for an eventual collapse. The problems of 2 weeks ago was generated by only a tiny % of defaults but THEIR NEW MODELS PROJECT SEVENTY PERCENT of all subprime loans will eventually foreclose in the next 12 or so months. 70%

The hardest hit states are expected to be in the South, and MI and CA.

October is the next month for major adjustments in subprimes, and you should expect trouble. If they go up, teetering foreclosures will skyrocket into failure. The Fed's promise to do what is needed won't work because they won't bail out what is needed.

They said what America has to come to realize is that "Wall St." as we know it is over, a new system must result, and if steps are not taken, a severe crash is UNAVOIDABLE that FORCES a new system. The old system CANNOT be carried much longer.

Here is what else I am hearing as well. The problem is CATASTROPHIC in their words, but things will glide for a few weeks until October and later with the new adjustments.

The public WILL NOT HEAR MUCH IN THE NEWS, JUST LIKE THE 20's WHEN ALL WAS FINE IN THE NEWSPAPERS THE DAY BEFORE THE CRASH AND YET COLLAPSED THE NEXT DAY. PEOPLE MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO STAGE A RUN ON THE BANKS. Don't look to news for verification. Common sense.

Store food, water and cash and get into metals, and see NESARA.

What does it say when Bill Gates, the wealthiest man, now owns 30% of all silver in the world and billions in Euro's and in public said the dollar is going down (MSNBC)? He is not alone, most of the wealthiest have similarly prepared in different ways offshore.

Fortunately the new Treasury Bank system has been ready for years but blocked, but I guess we have to endure the worse before the best before the thousands of thugs in government and multinational companies are ousted. You have time now to protect yourself as best possible in the next few weeks. It will happen, but during the changeover banks and ATM's will not work temporarily!!! Be prepared now!!

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Last updated 09/09/2007


Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:41 am
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More on Project Endgame:


Quote:
#14 Homeland Security Contracts KBR to Build Detention Centers in the US
Sources:
New America Media, January 31, 2006
Title: “Homeland Security Contracts for Vast New Detention Camps”
Author: Peter Dale Scott

New America Media, February 21, 2006
Title: “10-Year US Strategic Plan for Detention Camps Revives Proposals from Oliver North”
Author: Peter Dale Scott

Consortiium, February 21, 2006
Title: “Bush's Mysterious ‘New Programs’”
Author: Nat Parry

Buzzflash
Title: “Detention Camp Jitters”
Author: Maureen Farrell

Community Evaluator: Dr. Gary Evans
Student Researchers: Sean Hurley and Caitlyn Peele

Halliburton’s subsidiary KBR (formerly Kellogg, Brown and Root) announced on January 24, 2006 that it had been awarded a $385 million contingency contract by the Department of Homeland Security to build detention camps in the United States.

According to a press release posted on the Halliburton website, “The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities.”

What little coverage the announcement received focused on concerns about Halliburton’s reputation for overcharging U.S. taxpayers for substandard services.

Less attention was focused on the phrase “rapid development of new programs” or what type of programs might require a major expansion of detention centers, capable of holding 5,000 people each. Jamie Zuieback, spokeswoman for ICE, declined to elaborate on what these “new programs” might be.

Only a few independent journalists, such as Peter Dale Scott, Maureen Farrell, and Nat Parry have explored what the Bush administration might actually have in mind.

Scott speculates that the “detention centers could be used to detain American citizens if the Bush administration were to declare martial law.” He recalled that during the Reagan administration, National Security Council aide Oliver North organized the Rex-84 “readiness exercise,” which contemplated the Federal Emergency Management Agency rounding up and detaining 400,000 “refugees” in the event of “uncontrolled population movements” over the Mexican border into the U.S.

North’s exercise, which reportedly contemplated possible suspension of the Constitution, led to a line of questioning during the Iran-Contra Hearings concerning the idea that plans for expanded internment and detention facilities would not be confined to “refugees” alone.

It is relevant, says Scott, that in 2002 Attorney General John Ashcroft announced his desire to see camps for U.S. citizens deemed to be “enemy combatants.” On February 17, 2006, in a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke of the harm being done to the country’s security, not just by the enemy, but also by what he called “news informers” who needed to be combated in “a contest of wills.”

Since September 11 the Bush administration has implemented a number of interrelated programs that were planned in the 1980s under President Reagan. Continuity of Government (COG) proposals—a classified plan for keeping a secret “government-within-the-government” running during and after a nuclear disaster—included vastly expanded detention capabilities, warrantless eavesdropping, and preparations for greater use of martial law.

Scott points out that, while Oliver North represented a minority element in the Reagan administration, which soon distanced itself from both the man and his proposals, the minority associated with COG planning, which included Cheney and Rumsfeld, appear to be in control of the U.S. government today.

Farrell speculates that, because another terror attack is all but certain, it seems far more likely that the detention centers would be used for post-September 11-type detentions of rounded-up immigrants rather than for a sudden deluge of immigrants flooding across the border.

Vietnam-era whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg ventures, “Almost certainly this is preparation for a roundup after the next September 11 for Mid-Easterners, Muslims and possibly dissenters. They’ve already done this on a smaller scale, with the ‘special registration’ detentions of immigrant men from Muslim countries, and with Guantánamo.”

Parry notes that The Washington Post reported on February 15, 2006 that the National Counterterrorism Center’s (NCTC) central repository holds the names of 325,000 terrorist suspects, a fourfold increase since fall of 2003.
Asked whether the names in the repository were collected through the NSA’s domestic surveillance program, an NCTC official told the Post, “Our database includes names of known and suspected international terrorists provided by all intelligence community organizations, including NSA.”

As the administration scoops up more and more names, members of Congress have questioned the elasticity of Bush’s definitions for words like terrorist “affiliates,” used to justify wiretapping Americans allegedly in contact with such people or entities.

A Defense Department document, entitled the “Strategy for Homeland Defense and Civil Support,” has set out a military strategy against terrorism that envisions an “active, layered defense” both inside and outside U.S. territory. In the document, the Pentagon pledges to “transform U.S. military forces to execute homeland defense missions in the . . . U.S. homeland.” The strategy calls for increased military reconnaissance and surveillance to “defeat potential challengers before they threaten the United States.” The plan “maximizes threat awareness and seizes the initiative from those who would harm us.”

But there are concerns, warns Parry, over how the Pentagon judges “threats” and who falls under the category of “those who would harm us.” A Pentagon official said the Counterintelligence Field Activity’s TALON program has amassed files on antiwar protesters.

In the view of some civil libertarians, a form of martial law already exists in the U.S. and has been in place since shortly after the September 11 attacks when Bush issued Military Order Number One, which empowered him to detain any noncitizen as an international terrorist or enemy combatant. Today that order extends to U.S. citizens as well.

Farrell ends her article with the conclusion that while much speculation has been generated by KBR’s contract to build huge detention centers within the U.S., “The truth is, we won’t know the real purpose of these centers unless ‘contingency plans are needed.’ And by then, it will be too late.”

UPDATE BY PETER DALE SCOTT
The contract of the Halliburton subsidiary KBR to build immigrant detention facilities is part of a longer-term Homeland Security plan titled ENDGAME, which sets as its goal the removal of “all removable aliens” and “potential terrorists.” In the 1980s Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld discussed similar emergency detention powers as part of a super-secret program of planning for what was euphemistically called “Continuity of Government” (COG) in the event of a nuclear disaster. At the time, Cheney was a Wyoming congressman, while Rumsfeld, who had been defense secretary under President Ford, was a businessman and CEO of the drug company G.D. Searle.

These men planned for suspension of the Constitution, not just after nuclear attack, but for any “national security emergency,” which they defined in Executive Order 12656 of 1988 as: “Any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological or other emergency, that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States.” Clearly September 11 would meet this definition, and did, for COG was instituted on that day. As the Washington Post later explained, the order “dispatched a shadow government of about 100 senior civilian managers to live and work secretly outside Washington, activating for the first time long-standing plans.”

What these managers in this shadow government worked on has never been reported. But it is significant that the group that prepared ENDGAME was, as the Homeland Security document puts it, “chartered in September 2001.” For ENDGAME’s goal of a capacious detention capability is remarkably similar to Oliver North’s controversial Rex-84 “readiness exercise” for COG in 1984. This called for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to round up and detain 400,000 imaginary “refugees,” in the context of “uncontrolled population movements” over the Mexican border into the United States.

UPDATE BY MAUREEN FARRELL
When the story about Kellogg, Brown and Root’s contract for emergency detention centers broke, immigration was not the hot button issue it is today. Given this, the language in Halliburton’s press release, stating that the centers would be built in the event of an “emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S.,” raised eyebrows, especially among those familiar with Rex-84 and other Reagan-era initiatives. FEMA’s former plans ‘for the detention of at least 21 million American Negroes in assembly centers or relocation camps’ added to the distrust, and the second stated reason for the KBR contract, “to support the rapid development of new programs,” sent imaginations reeling.

While few in the mainstream media made the connection between KBR’s contract and previous programs, Fox News eventually addressed this issue, pooh-poohing concerns as the province of “conspiracy theories” and “unfounded” fears. My article attempted to sift through the speculation, focusing on verifiable information found in declassified and leaked documents which proved that, in addition to drawing up contingency plans for martial law, the government has conducted military readiness exercises designed to round up and detain both illegal aliens and U.S. citizens.
How concerned should Americans be? Recent reports are conflicting and confusing:

In May, 2006, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) began “Operation Return to Sender,” which involved catching illegal immigrants and deporting them. In June, however, President Bush vowed that there would soon be “new infrastructures” including detention centers designed to put an end to such “catch and release” practices.
Though Bush said he was “working with Congress to increase the number of detention facilities along our borders,” Rep. Bennie Thompson, ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee, said he first learned about the KBR contract through newspaper reports.
Fox News recently quoted Pepperdine University professor Doug Kmiec, who deemed detention camp concerns “more paranoia than reality” and added that KBR’s contract is most likely “something related to (Hurricane) Katrina” or “a bird flu outbreak that could spur a mass quarantine of Americans.” The president’s stated desire for the U.S. military to take a more active role during natural disasters and to enforce quarantines in the event of a bird flu outbreak, however, have been roundly denounced.
Concern over an all-powerful federal government is not paranoia, but active citizenship. As Thomas Jefferson explained, “even under the best forms of government, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.” From John Adams’s Alien and Sedition Acts to FDR’s internment of Japanese Americans, the land of the free has held many contradictions and ironies. Interestingly enough, Halliburton was at the center of another historical controversy, when Lyndon Johnson’s ties to a little-known company named Kellogg, Brown and Root caused a congressional commotion—particularly after the Halliburton subsidiary won enough wartime contracts to become one of the first protested symbols of the military-industrial complex. Back then they were known as the “Vietnam builders.” The question, of course, is what they’ll be known as next.

Additional links:
“ Reagan Aides and the Secret Government,” Miami Herald, July 5, 1987, http://fpiarticle.blogspot.com/2005/12/ ... -1987.html

“Foundations are in place for martial law in the US,” July 27, 2002, Sydney Morning Herald, smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/ 1027497418339.html

“Halliburton Deals Recall Vietnam-Era Controversy: Cheney’s Ties to Company Reminiscent of LBJ’s Relationships,” NPR, Dec. 24, 2003, http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=1569483

“Critics Fear Emergency Centers Could Be Used for Immigration Round-Ups,” Fox News, June 7, 2006, http://www.foxnews.com/ story/0,2933,198456,00.html

“U.S. officials nab 2,100 illegal immigrants in 3 weeks,” USA Today, June 14, 2006, http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... ests_x.htm


Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:32 am
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Location: "Consulting the Oracles"
Post Re: PSA - The DonDep Files
Dondep wrote:
The DonDep Files - Part 1


Okay, apologies in advance for the shameless self-promotion, but if I'm gonna walk the walk I better talk the talk. The link below is to a recent interview I did, the first part of "The DonDep Files", which is soon to be aired on satellite radio:

http://perrynoid.com/Perrynoid_Radio.php

It's my opinion, I'm damn well welcome to it and so are you. Many don't agree, and that's okay too.

I also finally learned how to convert DVD videos and home (surveillance) videotapes into .avi files that can be uploaded online. I inserted a video of our encore performance in Alma-Ata of "Shun" as a test on the page Starry made for me at:

http://danburisch.info/b2/saga/sg_dd.htm

And uploaded it to YouTube also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0etGegiVJQM

Now that I know how to do it, I'll be able to upload the surveillance tapes shortly. More to come....in the meantime, back to our cut-n'-paste fest....


Are you in the 'shun' youtube video DonD?

Dex


Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:19 pm
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1965

Quote:
Real-life 'Armageddon': British engineers bid to save Earth from deadly asteroid collision
By NIALL FIRTH - More by this author » Last updated at 16:55pm on 3rd September 2007

Comments Comments
Like a scene from the hit film Armageddon, British engineers have joined a competition to try and save the Earth from a catastrophic collision with an asteroid which could be heading our way.

Apophis is a 300-metre-wide asteroid and is still millions of kilometres away.

But, in 2029, its orbit will take it worryingly close to Earth – closer than many satellites.

Image


When it does, its orbit around the Sun will be affected and just a tiny shift of just a few hundred kilometres could mean Apophis returns in 2036 to slam into Earth, creating unimaginable death and destruction.

UK-based space firm EADS Astrium has bid to develop a spacecraft, known as Apex, which would reach the asteroid in 2014.

Apex will monitor it closely so as to better understand any risk it may pose in the future.

According to the Planetary Society, which is offering a £25,000 prize for the best idea to "rendezvous with and 'tag'" Apophis, something needs to be done to assess the risk.

The Society says on its website: "Will Apophis pass through the "keyhole," the small area on its 2029 path that would cause it to hit Earth on its next orbit in 2036?

"We have to find out, because if an impact is likely to occur, we're going to need all the time possible to plan and implement space missions to deflect it away from Earth."

The full mission would cost several million dollars to develop and run.

According to the Planetary Society, more than 100 teams worldwide are developing plans for Apophis missions.


Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:31 pm
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See bold:

Did that myself asked a tenured professor at I.U to take a look at it. He laughed and told me the thing at best was someone "borrowing terms from science books and slapping it together to make it look real."

The second was a Microbiologist in Washington D.C a higher up in F.D.A. Who was the brother of my cousin's wife. He looked at the document emailed me back with a page wide ROFLASF emote! He thought I was joking with him!

Boy oh boy Burisch's science must be cutting edge its making the Microbiologists across the globe laughing.

Quick Danny PUBLISH your data make them all wrong? **puts hand to hear to listen..... Silence.. thought so!***

Shady




Quote:
Re: Crain‏
From: Mc47 (Mc47@donet.com)
Sent: Sun 9/09/07 6:52 PM
To: Bill Hamilton (Skywatcher22@hotmail.com)

Bill---You don't listen, I never said that the account Dan gave was on EBE-2. Read what I wrote. And you talk about doing investigation? I spent years defending Burisch, is that investigation? Stop making stupid accusations like you always do.

Jrod is our decedent? They traveled from our future? None of the LANL sources can corroborate that either.

There were many things that changed my mind for the 100th time. Kit's National Academy of Science Microbiologist who said the Q94 was trash as well as other Microbiologists. You ignore that by saying, "ohhh" they just didn't understand the Q94. I know how you think.

Also, besides the Q94 there were Gene Lakes, Paul McGovern Mcgovern and Rock Doty's own LANL sources who said there was NO Dan Burisch or Crain as a Microbilogist or Clean Sphere. Now, how many times has that been said? If you want to "hang" onto Burisch that your prerogative, but the evidence is against you. You have ONLY one person who is saying there was a Clean Sphere.

The one who ignores the new evidence and doesn't investigate is not on this end.....Rmc


Bill Hamilton wrote:
Subject: RE: Crain
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:33:24 -0600
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2007 20:33:25.0656 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC2E3180:01C7F320]

Bob,

I don't care what you believe from those who deceive you. The detailed
account on the J-Rod Dan gave was a J-Rod that was not EBE-2 and he wasn't just sick; he was on a
genetic backslide. The atmosphere he learned to breath was not the same as ours and so he was
housed in an environmental chamber. That's the story. He is our decendent. That's
the story. You would rather believe stories by Rick, Paul, and Gene and yet they call you
names and disagree with you. You don't investigate, you proclaim:


Bill, this is your email from 2005: Yes there was more than one
JRod. In fact as Rick said EBE-2 had the code name of JRod, but EBE-2
left in 1984 according to ALL the sources. And again, Tom Mack said
nothing about a sick JRod when he left Groom Lake in 1994.
Both Gene Lakes and Rick Doty both said they knew a Crain while at Groom Lake, Tom Mack mentioned a Crain too if you remember? But that Crain was not a Scientist or Microbiologist. He (Crain) worked in the Scientific Intelligence Div at Groom Lake. The same division that Tom Mack and McGovern worked in.....Rmc

Bill Hamilton wrote:
Robert,

There is more than one J-Rod since J-Rod is a generic name for this entity and when this one got old, he started to contract the peripheral neuropathy. Rick is also tending to validate what
Bill Uhouse said in his testimony about J-Rod.

Uhouse(not his real name) said,

"We had meetings, and I ended up in a meeting with an alien. I called him J-ROD - of course, that’s what they called him. I don’t know if that was his real name or not, but that’s the name the linguist gave him. I did draw a sketch, before I left, of him in a meeting. I provided it to some people and that was my impression of what I saw.

The alien used to come in with [Dr. Edward] Teller and some of the other guys, occasionally, to handle questions that maybe we’d have. You know? But you have to understand that everything was specific to the group. If it wasn’t specific to the group, you couldn’t talk about it. It was on a need-to-know basis. And [the ET] he’d talk. He would talk, but he’d sound just like as if you spoke - he’d sound like you. You know, he’s like a parrot, but he’d try and answer your question. A lot of times he’d have a hard time understanding, because if you didn’t put it on paper and explain yourself, half the time he couldn’t give you a good answer."

Bill


RICK DOTY wrote:

The main problem I have with Crain/Burisch is the J-Rod story. No one I know can relate to his story. As late as 1991, J-Rod lived in normal living conditions. He did not live in a sphere. J-Rod had no medical problems. Every official, who had access to J-Rod, knows all about him. J-Rod had no problem breathing our air or living in our environment. As far as I'm concern, Crain/Burisch's story about J-Rod is a fake! My close friend, who still works for LANL, laugh at this story. My friend had close access to J-Rod for many years and never knew him to suffer from any medical problems.

----- Original Message -----
*From:* fidelio <mailto>
*To:* undisclosed-recipients: <mailto>
*Sent:* Saturday, April 16, 2005 09:20
*Subject:* Re: Dan recognizes Rick!


Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:13 pm
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Yea right Marci the WHOLE World's after you! Run run hide hide!!!! LOL

The word your looking for is.. SPIN spin!! Spin Doctor! ;)


Nightshady 09



Quote:
Dr. Marcia McDowell
Administrator
member is offline

HUMBLY SERVING THE "APOSTLE TO THE APOSTLES"

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 577
Karma: 5 Re: ASK THE MONGRAAL!
« Reply #255 on Today at 6:57pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANNOUNCEMENT FROM ADMIN TO EAGLES TEAM:

Members, the numbers are in. The analysis has been done. They are attemtping to engage a flame war so they can become important. It's a few, just a small number, and some of them are paid for their services. The numbers I have just seen and the feedback we have just received is conclusive. As of now we know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.

They aren't important enough to care about. Give me a call so I can share the information with each of you.

We'll call them "Exempt from Concern."

Marci


Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:26 pm
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Post 
Quote:
RE: Bob Collins NEEDS an Ol' Fashioned Ass Whoopin' like Dan Burisch Got!‏
From: Freedom Fighter (planetaryfreedomfighter@hotmail.com)
You may not know this sender. Mark as safe | Mark as unsafe
Sent: Sun 9/09/07 8:51 PM
To: Victor Martinez (victorgm@webtv.net)
Cc: Victor, Bill (Ryan & Hamilton) & all:

I just logged on for today and only have another hour and one-half of Internet & e-mail access for today, but I will repeat myself and say that the incident involved a domestic dispute that got out of control.

I did not say Burisch got beaten up by his wife, nor did some stranger hit him with a truck. These are more fairy tales that some of you are only too willing to uncritically believe because it makes Burisch look like some sort of heroic victim -- in your minds only. They are only more fairy tales added to fairy tales.

I will repeat myself again, if you want to know what happened, ask Dodi Crain.

Make sure you tell her Dan is claiming a "Majestic agent" caused the injuries and see what she says.

Burisch is only making up fairy tales. There was no "Majestic agent" involved.

Only family members.


Randy Kitchur




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: VictorGM@webtv.net
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 21:15:41 -0700
To: PlanetaryFreedomFighter@hotmail.com
CC: Subject: RANDY: It's hard to believe the Burisch photos came from a domestic...


dispute! IF they did, then why didn't the parties involved file a policereport? AND, was the domestic dispute with his wife, another guy or agroup of people? AND, who was standing/stomping on his hand to break it? AND, why post his beating photos on this particular video where he'sventing his rage, anger and frustration(s) with the UFOcommunity/subject matter ... i.e., what's the CONNECTION between hisdomestic dispute and UFOlogy? –

--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: planetaryfreedomfighter@hotmail.com
To: victorgm@webtv.net; rpjmartin1971@yahoo.co.uk
CC: Subject: RE: Bob Collins NEEDS an Ol' Fashioned Ass Whoopin' like Dan Burisch Got!
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 22:14:10 -0500

[Truncated]


Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:00 pm
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Post 
marci wrote:
ANNOUNCEMENT FROM ADMIN TO EAGLES TEAM:

Members, the numbers are in. The analysis has been done. They are attemtping to engage a flame war so they can become important. It's a few, just a small number, and some of them are paid for their services. The numbers I have just seen and the feedback we have just received is conclusive. As of now we know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.

They aren't important enough to care about. Give me a call so I can share the information with each of you.

We'll call them "Exempt from Concern."


Uncle John here: Why is marci caring about these unimportant people? LOL

Now I wonder who is paying for people to irritate d&m. I wonder if I could get in on that? LOL.

Why don't d&m complain to dadmiral to cut off the funding? LOL

I love a parade!


Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:13 pm
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Post Re: PSA - The DonDep Files
Dex wrote:
Dondep wrote:
The DonDep Files - Part 1


Okay, apologies in advance for the shameless self-promotion, but if I'm gonna walk the walk I better talk the talk. The link below is to a recent interview I did, the first part of "The DonDep Files", which is soon to be aired on satellite radio:

http://perrynoid.com/Perrynoid_Radio.php

It's my opinion, I'm damn well welcome to it and so are you. Many don't agree, and that's okay too.

I also finally learned how to convert DVD videos and home (surveillance) videotapes into .avi files that can be uploaded online. I inserted a video of our encore performance in Alma-Ata of "Shun" as a test on the page Starry made for me at:

http://danburisch.info/b2/saga/sg_dd.htm

And uploaded it to YouTube also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0etGegiVJQM

Now that I know how to do it, I'll be able to upload the surveillance tapes shortly. More to come....in the meantime, back to our cut-n'-paste fest....


Are you in the 'shun' youtube video DonD?

Dex


Yes, Dex, that's me in black with a hat, singing and playing bass. Patrick, the 'Creole-American', is on rhythmn guitar, always getting the brunt from the smoke machine, and Arthur on lead guitar (that would be the 'African-American', also dressed in black). Jeff, the Cuban-American with ADD, rounded out the 'fab faux' on drums.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle John wrote:
marci wrote:
ANNOUNCEMENT FROM ADMIN TO EAGLES TEAM:

Members, the numbers are in. The analysis has been done. They are attemtping to engage a flame war so they can become important. It's a few, just a small number, and some of them are paid for their services. The numbers I have just seen and the feedback we have just received is conclusive. As of now we know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.

They aren't important enough to care about. Give me a call so I can share the information with each of you.

We'll call them "Exempt from Concern."



Uncle John here: Why is marci caring about these unimportant people? LOL

Now I wonder who is paying for people to irritate d&m. I wonder if I could get in on that? LOL.

Why don't d&m complain to dadmiral to cut off the funding? LOL

I love a parade!


This is an example of what is called "elitism". I doubt anyone would really be interested in physically harming Dan (or her, for that matter), but years of being taught one is 'special' enough to know the 'Secrets' that mere mortals aren't allowed to know can cause one to think so highly of oneself that one can develop the kind of paranoia the Maji like to cultivate in their underlings. That isn't to disparage their intelligence, but to paraphrase the old adage "live by the surveillance camera, suffer (not 'die'....wouldn't want to trip any additional paranoia :P ) by the surveillance camera".

I think the comment refers to the 'ufers' squabbling over on Victor's email list; the "Exempt From Concern" appears to be a play on "Exempt From Disclosure", Bob Collins' last book with Rick Doty. In this case, Marci's right; instead of taking it to Congress like they should, they attack each other's egos and 'sources' endlessly, to the betterment of no-one.

_________________
"We seek a free flow of information... we are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people."-John F. Kennedy, Feb. 26th, 1962.


Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:46 pm
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http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=4214

Quote:
ACC orders command-wide stand-down on Sept. 14
Published on Sunday, September 09, 2007.

AddThis Social Bookmarking Widget

Source: Air Force Times

On Sept. 14, flight lines will be very quiet at Air Combat Command bases.

The entire command — about 100,000 active-duty airmen — is standing down training flights and many other operations as part of a command-wide safety day.

Command boss Gen. Ronald Keys ordered the Sept. 14 safety stand-down in the wake of the Aug. 30 nuclear incident at Minot Air Force Base, N.D., in which six cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads were loaded onto a B-52H and then flown to Barksdale Air Force Base, La., without anyone on the ground or bomber realizing the nuclear weapons were on the plane. It was not until the B-52H was parked at Barksdale that ground crews discovered the cruise missiles were carrying real warheads.

Command spokesman Maj. Tom Crosson said wing commanders would determine how their units review operations and safety procedures and checklists.

Just how serious Keys takes the lapse of regulations at Minot is reflected in the fact that the safety stand-down is the first command-wide safety day in recent memory. In the past, the command has singled out specific types of aircraft for safety days and in 1997 the Department of Defense held a department-wide safety review day.


Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:06 am
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If your a youtube member I HIGHLY Suggest you put this author (see videos below) on your subscribe list.

mars boy's' videos are ALL Based on actual military papers and docs. This guy knows his stuff!





Targeted Individuals (TI's) (#31)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=si1bHa45u18

Describes how MKULTRA, Cointelpro, and develpoment of microwave weapons have been melded into a single program that turns whistleblowers, dissidents, and security risks into human experimental subjects.
The books are free at myspace.com/marsboy683 (blog)
Buy the books/DVDs at customflix, amazon, theconnextion, lulu.com See the links at MonarchNewPhoenix.org /com

Targeted Individuals (TI's) (#32)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PJqMcafwFJ8

Describes the life of the human experimental subject undgoing torture with microwave weapons, emotional and behavioral manipulation using the Monroe, Malech, Smirnov patents, and organized gang stalking using groups manipulated by military intelligence and CIA to assassinate political dissidents.
The books are free at myspace.com/marsboy683 (blog)
Buy the books/DVDs at customflix, amazon, theconnextion, lulu.com See the links at MonarchNewPhoenix.org /com


Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:32 am
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Location: Eastern England
Post stock markets to go put-put?
Two interesting financial stories that are perhaps tied in with this speculator who's bought put options gambling that the European Stock markets will drop between 30-50% some time in September:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.j ... ebt109.xml
Banks face 10-day debt timebomb

By Iain Dey, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 12:02am BST 10/09/2007

Britain's biggest banks could be forced to cough up as much as £70bn over the next 10 days, as the credit crisis that has seized the global financial system sparks a fresh wave of chaos.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.j ... tviewedbox

Is China quietly dumping US Treasuries?

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 12:25am BST 06/09/2007

A sharp drop in foreign holdings of US Treasury bonds over the last five weeks has raised concerns that China is quietly withdrawing its funds from the United States, leaving the dollar increasingly vulnerable.


Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:02 am
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Image

Quote:
Chip implants linked to animal tumors By TODD LEWAN, AP National Writer
Sun Sep 9, 7:35 AM ET

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070909/ap_ ... erica_ii_2



When the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved implanting microchips in humans, the manufacturer said it would save lives, letting doctors scan the tiny transponders to access patients' medical records almost instantly. The FDA found "reasonable assurance" the device was safe, and a sub-agency even called it one of 2005's top "innovative technologies."

But neither the company nor the regulators publicly mentioned this: A series of veterinary and toxicology studies, dating to the mid-1990s, stated that chip implants had "induced" malignant tumors in some lab mice and rats.

"The transponders were the cause of the tumors," said Keith Johnson, a retired toxicologic pathologist, explaining in a phone interview the findings of a 1996 study he led at the Dow Chemical Co. in Midland, Mich.

Leading cancer specialists reviewed the research for The Associated Press and, while cautioning that animal test results do not necessarily apply to humans, said the findings troubled them. Some said they would not allow family members to receive implants, and all urged further research before the glass-encased transponders are widely implanted in people.

To date, about 2,000 of the so-called radio frequency identification, or RFID, devices have been implanted in humans worldwide, according to VeriChip Corp. The company, which sees a target market of 45 million Americans for its medical monitoring chips, insists the devices are safe, as does its parent company, Applied Digital Solutions, of Delray Beach, Fla.

"We stand by our implantable products which have been approved by the FDA and/or other U.S. regulatory authorities," Scott Silverman, VeriChip Corp. chairman and chief executive officer, said in a written response to AP questions.

The company was "not aware of any studies that have resulted in malignant tumors in laboratory rats, mice and certainly not dogs or cats," but he added that millions of domestic pets have been implanted with microchips, without reports of significant problems.

"In fact, for more than 15 years we have used our encapsulated glass transponders with FDA approved anti-migration caps and received no complaints regarding malignant tumors caused by our product."

The FDA also stands by its approval of the technology.

Did the agency know of the tumor findings before approving the chip implants? The FDA declined repeated AP requests to specify what studies it reviewed.

The FDA is overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services, which, at the time of VeriChip's approval, was headed by Tommy Thompson. Two weeks after the device's approval took effect on Jan. 10, 2005, Thompson left his Cabinet post, and within five months was a board member of VeriChip Corp. and Applied Digital Solutions. He was compensated in cash and stock options.

Thompson, until recently a candidate for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination, says he had no personal relationship with the company as the VeriChip was being evaluated, nor did he play any role in FDA's approval process of the RFID tag.

"I didn't even know VeriChip before I stepped down from the Department of Health and Human Services," he said in a telephone interview.

Also making no mention of the findings on animal tumors was a June report by the ethics committee of the American Medical Association, which touted the benefits of implantable RFID devices.

Had committee members reviewed the literature on cancer in chipped animals?

No, said Dr. Steven Stack, an AMA board member with knowledge of the committee's review.

Was the AMA aware of the studies?

No, he said.

___

Published in veterinary and toxicology journals between 1996 and 2006, the studies found that lab mice and rats injected with microchips sometimes developed subcutaneous "sarcomas" — malignant tumors, most of them encasing the implants.

• A 1998 study in Ridgefield, Conn., of 177 mice reported cancer incidence to be slightly higher than 10 percent — a result the researchers described as "surprising."

• A 2006 study in France detected tumors in 4.1 percent of 1,260 microchipped mice. This was one of six studies in which the scientists did not set out to find microchip-induced cancer but noticed the growths incidentally. They were testing compounds on behalf of chemical and pharmaceutical companies; but they ruled out the compounds as the tumors' cause. Because researchers only noted the most obvious tumors, the French study said, "These incidences may therefore slightly underestimate the true occurrence" of cancer.

• In 1997, a study in Germany found cancers in 1 percent of 4,279 chipped mice. The tumors "are clearly due to the implanted microchips," the authors wrote.

Caveats accompanied the findings. "Blind leaps from the detection of tumors to the prediction of human health risk should be avoided," one study cautioned. Also, because none of the studies had a control group of animals that did not get chips, the normal rate of tumors cannot be determined and compared to the rate with chips implanted.

Still, after reviewing the research, specialists at some pre-eminent cancer institutions said the findings raised red flags.

"There's no way in the world, having read this information, that I would have one of those chips implanted in my skin, or in one of my family members," said Dr. Robert Benezra, head of the Cancer Biology Genetics Program at the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York.

Before microchips are implanted on a large scale in humans, he said, testing should be done on larger animals, such as dogs or monkeys. "I mean, these are bad diseases. They are life-threatening. And given the preliminary animal data, it looks to me that there's definitely cause for concern."

Dr. George Demetri, director of the Center for Sarcoma and Bone Oncology at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, agreed. Even though the tumor incidences were "reasonably small," in his view, the research underscored "certainly real risks" in RFID implants.

In humans, sarcomas, which strike connective tissues, can range from the highly curable to "tumors that are incredibly aggressive and can kill people in three to six months," he said.

At the Jackson Laboratory in Maine, a leader in mouse genetics research and the initiation of cancer, Dr. Oded Foreman, a forensic pathologist, also reviewed the studies at the AP's request.

At first he was skeptical, suggesting that chemicals administered in some of the studies could have caused the cancers and skewed the results. But he took a different view after seeing that control mice, which received no chemicals, also developed the cancers. "That might be a little hint that something real is happening here," he said. He, too, recommended further study, using mice, dogs or non-human primates.

Dr. Cheryl London, a veterinarian oncologist at Ohio State University, noted: "It's much easier to cause cancer in mice than it is in people. So it may be that what you're seeing in mice represents an exaggerated phenomenon of what may occur in people."

Tens of thousands of dogs have been chipped, she said, and veterinary pathologists haven't reported outbreaks of related sarcomas in the area of the neck, where canine implants are often done. (Published reports detailing malignant tumors in two chipped dogs turned up in AP's four-month examination of research on chips and health. In one dog, the researchers said cancer appeared linked to the presence of the embedded chip; in the other, the cancer's cause was uncertain.)

Nonetheless, London saw a need for a 20-year study of chipped canines "to see if you have a biological effect." Dr. Chand Khanna, a veterinary oncologist at the National Cancer Institute, also backed such a study, saying current evidence "does suggest some reason to be concerned about tumor formations."

Meanwhile, the animal study findings should be disclosed to anyone considering a chip implant, the cancer specialists agreed.

To date, however, that hasn't happened.

___

The product that VeriChip Corp. won approval for use in humans is an electronic capsule the size of two grains of rice. Generally, it is implanted with a syringe into an anesthetized portion of the upper arm.

When prompted by an electromagnetic scanner, the chip transmits a unique code. With the code, hospital staff can go on the Internet and access a patient's medical profile that is maintained in a database by VeriChip Corp. for an annual fee.

VeriChip Corp., whose parent company has been marketing radio tags for animals for more than a decade, sees an initial market of diabetics and people with heart conditions or Alzheimer's disease, according to a Securities and Exchange Commission filing.

The company is spending millions to assemble a national network of hospitals equipped to scan chipped patients.

But in its SEC filings, product labels and press releases, VeriChip Corp. has not mentioned the existence of research linking embedded transponders to tumors in test animals.

When the FDA approved the device, it noted some Verichip risks: The capsules could migrate around the body, making them difficult to extract; they might interfere with defibrillators, or be incompatible with MRI scans, causing burns. While also warning that the chips could cause "adverse tissue reaction," FDA made no reference to malignant growths in animal studies.

Did the agency review literature on microchip implants and animal cancer?

Dr. Katherine Albrecht, a privacy advocate and RFID expert, asked shortly after VeriChip's approval what evidence the agency had reviewed. When FDA declined to provide information, she filed a Freedom of Information Act request. More than a year later, she received a letter stating there were no documents matching her request.

"The public relies on the FDA to evaluate all the data and make sure the devices it approves are safe," she says, "but if they're not doing that, who's covering our backs?"

Late last year, Albrecht unearthed at the Harvard medical library three studies noting cancerous tumors in some chipped mice and rats, plus a reference in another study to a chipped dog with a tumor. She forwarded them to the AP, which subsequently found three additional mice studies with similar findings, plus another report of a chipped dog with a tumor.

Asked if it had taken these studies into account, the FDA said VeriChip documents were being kept confidential to protect trade secrets. After AP filed a FOIA request, the FDA made available for a phone interview Anthony Watson, who was in charge of the VeriChip approval process.

"At the time we reviewed this, I don't remember seeing anything like that," he said of animal studies linking microchips to cancer. A literature search "didn't turn up anything that would be of concern."

In general, Watson said, companies are expected to provide safety-and-effectiveness data during the approval process, "even if it's adverse information."

Watson added: "The few articles from the literature that did discuss adverse tissue reactions similar to those in the articles you provided, describe the responses as foreign body reactions that are typical of other implantable devices. The balance of the data provided in the submission supported approval of the device."

Another implantable device could be a pacemaker, and indeed, tumors have in some cases attached to foreign bodies inside humans. But Dr. Neil Lipman, director of the Research Animal Resource Center at Memorial Sloan-Kettering, said it's not the same. The microchip isn't like a pacemaker that's vital to keeping someone alive, he added, "so at this stage, the payoff doesn't justify the risks."

Silverman, VeriChip Corp.'s chief executive, disagreed. "Each month pet microchips reunite over 8,000 dogs and cats with their owners," he said. "We believe the VeriMed Patient Identification System will provide similar positive benefits for at-risk patients who are unable to communicate for themselves in an emergency."

___

And what of former HHS secretary Thompson?

When asked what role, if any, he played in VeriChip's approval, Thompson replied: "I had nothing to do with it. And if you look back at my record, you will find that there has never been any improprieties whatsoever."

FDA's Watson said: "I have no recollection of him being involved in it at all." VeriChip Corp. declined comment.

Thompson vigorously campaigned for electronic medical records and healthcare technology both as governor of Wisconsin and at HHS. While in President Bush's Cabinet, he formed a "medical innovation" task force that worked to partner FDA with companies developing medical information technologies.

At a "Medical Innovation Summit" on Oct. 20, 2004, Lester Crawford, the FDA's acting commissioner, thanked the secretary for getting the agency "deeply involved in the use of new information technology to help prevent medication error." One notable example he cited: "the implantable chips and scanners of the VeriChip system our agency approved last week."

After leaving the Cabinet and joining the company board, Thompson received options on 166,667 shares of VeriChip Corp. stock, and options on an additional 100,000 shares of stock from its parent company, Applied Digital Solutions, according to SEC records. He also received $40,000 in cash in 2005 and again in 2006, the filings show.

The Project on Government Oversight called Thompson's actions "unacceptable" even though they did not violate what the independent watchdog group calls weak conflict-of-interest laws.

"A decade ago, people would be embarrassed to cash in on their government connections. But now it's like the Wild West," said the group's executive director, Danielle Brian.

Thompson is a partner at Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP, a Washington law firm that was paid $1.2 million for legal services it provided the chip maker in 2005 and 2006, according to SEC filings.

He stepped down as a VeriChip Corp. director in March to seek the GOP presidential nomination, and records show that the company gave his campaign $7,400 before he bowed out of the race in August.

In a TV interview while still on the board, Thompson was explaining the benefits — and the ease — of being chipped when an interviewer interrupted:

"I'm sorry, sir. Did you just say you would get one implanted in your arm?"

"Absolutely," Thompson replied. "Without a doubt."

"No concerns at all?"

"No."

But to date, Thompson has yet to be chipped himself.

___

On the Web:

http://www.verichipcorp.com

http://www.antichips.com

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/


Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:22 am
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Post 
UncleJohn wrote:
marci wrote:
ANNOUNCEMENT FROM ADMIN TO EAGLES TEAM:

Members, the numbers are in. The analysis has been done. They are attemtping to engage a flame war so they can become important. It's a few, just a small number, and some of them are paid for their services. The numbers I have just seen and the feedback we have just received is conclusive. As of now we know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.

They aren't important enough to care about. Give me a call so I can share the information with each of you.

We'll call them "Exempt from Concern."


Uncle John here: Why is marci caring about these unimportant people? LOL

Now I wonder who is paying for people to irritate d&m. I wonder if I could get in on that? LOL.

Why don't d&m complain to dadmiral to cut off the funding? LOL

I love a parade!


How do I sign up???????? lol

Look folks, regaurdless of what MBM says...they are afraid of what we represent, (i.e. the TRUTH). They can pout, call names, and throw tantrums all they like, (they have ALWAYS done that), it just doesn't change the FACTS. The facts are that Don has his own segment on a show on radio where he can now reach a lot of people and his story is now about how DB is not exactly what he says he is amoung other MORE important issues, we have PROOVED they are hypocritical liers, we have shown everyone how unethical and cruel they are, there is no scientifc proof or back up that DB's GP is real (he won't let anyone close enough), there is no concrete proof or evidence that ANYTHING DB or MBM have said is true, etc. The list goes on and on.

Let me put it this way, if you were scamming the public for a paycheck you would be a profound and as vauge as possable. You would hold all the secrets, and release only small clues that couldn't possibly add up to anything. You would promise answers in the products you sell only to end the book or DVD with a promise the answer would be in the next book or DVD. You would create contravercy, excitement, and fear. Does any of this sound familar??????????!!!!!!!!!!! Why do they have these "insider" code/backtalk conversations on a public forum? To keep people interested ofcourse! Who are these supposed agent's and team members? They don't really exist, it's a puppet show to keep people tuned in!

Look folks, The only things we know to be true is that DB and MBM are two financially challenged individuals with a lot of imagination and time on their hands. Everything else is suspect.

Dag

_________________
"Better a small leader than a big follower."


Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:54 am
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Bravo Dagwood! Bravo! I couldn't agree more with that statement.

Shady




Dagwood wrote:
UncleJohn wrote:
marci wrote:
ANNOUNCEMENT FROM ADMIN TO EAGLES TEAM:

Members, the numbers are in. The analysis has been done. They are attemtping to engage a flame war so they can become important. It's a few, just a small number, and some of them are paid for their services. The numbers I have just seen and the feedback we have just received is conclusive. As of now we know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.

They aren't important enough to care about. Give me a call so I can share the information with each of you.

We'll call them "Exempt from Concern."


Uncle John here: Why is marci caring about these unimportant people? LOL

Now I wonder who is paying for people to irritate d&m. I wonder if I could get in on that? LOL.

Why don't d&m complain to dadmiral to cut off the funding? LOL

I love a parade!


How do I sign up???????? lol

Look folks, regaurdless of what MBM says...they are afraid of what we represent, (i.e. the TRUTH). They can pout, call names, and throw tantrums all they like, (they have ALWAYS done that), it just doesn't change the FACTS. The facts are that Don has his own segment on a show on radio where he can now reach a lot of people and his story is now about how DB is not exactly what he says he is amoung other MORE important issues, we have PROOVED they are hypocritical liers, we have shown everyone how unethical and cruel they are, there is no scientifc proof or back up that DB's GP is real (he won't let anyone close enough), there is no concrete proof or evidence that ANYTHING DB or MBM have said is true, etc. The list goes on and on.

Let me put it this way, if you were scamming the public for a paycheck you would be a profound and as vauge as possable. You would hold all the secrets, and release only small clues that couldn't possibly add up to anything. You would promise answers in the products you sell only to end the book or DVD with a promise the answer would be in the next book or DVD. You would create contravercy, excitement, and fear. Does any of this sound familar??????????!!!!!!!!!!! Why do they have these "insider" code/backtalk conversations on a public forum? To keep people interested ofcourse! Who are these supposed agent's and team members? They don't really exist, it's a puppet show to keep people tuned in!

Look folks, The only things we know to be true is that DB and MBM are two financially challenged individuals with a lot of imagination and time on their hands. Everything else is suspect.

Dag


Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:58 am
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Quote:
Spooks Getting Organized?‏
From: Ed Komarek (edkomarek@yahoo.com)
You may not know this sender. Mark as safe | Mark as unsafe
Sent: Mon 9/10/07 12:30 PM
To: Mc47 (Mc47@donet.com)

Well no wonder American Intel has so much trouble getting it right! :-)

How come you spooks don't get together into a more formal group on the net to make sense out of all this raw intelligence being dumped on the net. Then why not put out a collective estimate of the situation or briefing for public consumption. What we in the public need is some trustworthy group with and without direct access to sort through all the garbage for the gems and then put the gems together into some sort of coherent package for public consumption.

I spent quite a bit of time a ways back talking to people that got close to Burisch and were disappointed to find out that he was just a small time con artist. But it takes a lot of individual work to figure this out and there are piles of other folks with and without access out their muddying the waters.

There is no way one single person can get through all this to find out which information is accurate and what is not. That's why I think what we need is a group that can be trusted to evaluate, analyze the raw data and come out with some kind of periodic reports to the public. If somebody in the group is caught red handed playing games then that person should be ousted from the group by majority vote.

Instead of the President being the recipient it would be the public that the group would be accountable to.

Of course the creation of some sort of public-private group would in itself stir plenty of controversy. But once formed and run competently, such a group would be of great help to all of us. I think this is the direction that the Open Minds Forum folks are going and doing it in a ethical civil manner.

We have a lot of talent on the net and could collectively do a much better job of analysis if we were just a little better organized.

Ed



Mc47 <Mc47> wrote:
Ed, you said, "God help us if this is the way the US Intel agencies operate."

They do operate that way, the Public just doesn't know it yet. I've been there and I can tell you that's exactly how it is (especially the ones with TS/SCI/SAR access for the UFO subject) and why I'm on the war path.

Regards

Robert C



Ed Komarek wrote:
Oh for Christ's sake lets try to show a little love and appreciation for each other. :-) We are all in the same boat.

Bob might not have some of the access that others have but he was a forerunner in getting the word out with the stories he had heard in intelligence circles. It's up to honest pro disclosure spooks with access, to fill in the blanks, the details, for the rest of us and weed out unreliable sources and not get to squabbling amongst yourselves. Why to you have to call each other a liar every time there is some kind of misunderstanding?

What I like about the Open Minds Forum is that a group is developing there that are in the thick of things and who can begin to sort out which spook is on the level and can be trusted to give accurate information and who is just muddying the water. I am hoping somebody in the know at Open Minds can give us all a briefing, an estimate of the situation on what info is accurate and what is sprinkled with disinformation through the verification process. Instead of squabbling amongst yourselves, be it mostly for entertainment, still lets keep a eye on the prize.

How come you Intel guys with and without access can't get together and in a friendly fashion debate the raw intelligence and verify sources and come out with some decent product for public consumption. God help us if this is the way the US Intel agencies operate.

Ed

Mc47 <Mc47> wrote:
With a smart Verbal Diarrhea mouth and a WEB TV brain, I'd say Victor would be in for a good whipping like people have suggested to me. Now, to the rest who have more brains than Victor check pages 182 and 183 of the EFD book. Both McGovern and Lakes state emphatically that there was no Clean Sphere or a Burisch, Rick Doty said the same. There is definitely an S2, but NO Burisch or Clean Sphere, see Gene's pasted email below.......

Also, does one need "ACCESS" to know what's going on? As many people have told me, "You must have good sources," I can say that's very true plus the TS/SCI clearance I held.....Rmc



8/27/2007 7:35 PM: Gene Loscowski wrote:

What a crock of shit. Dan Burisch is the biggest phony I have ever heard. He has never worked for any government agencies. He never held a security clearances, according to all USG agencies have the power to issue security clearances. I can't understand anyone who would believe this fool.
On 8/23/07, Mc47 <Mc47> wrote:
Hi Bill & Kerry----Rick Doty's sources; Gene Lakes, and Paul McGovern all say there was never a Dan Burisch at Groom Lake, never. Believe me from the emails I have here they looked very, very hard to find him. But, Gene said that Bob Lazar was at Groom Lake because Bob Lazar was on the Security Access list, Burisch was not. Bill Hamilton accused Lakes of spreading dis-info because he couldn't find a Burisch; if that were true then why did Gene Lakes say he could find Lazar? I was a huge defender of Burisch, but gave up after so many inconsistencies. Of course Bill Hamilton will scream and yell.

I also don't give any credibility to Jim Sparks. The rest I don't know too much about. If you just want to Interview just to do Interviews then good luck.

Regards

Robert C
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Victor Martinez wrote:
– PLEASE VIEW GRAPHIC ATTACHMENT! – RICH MARTIN: Good line of questioning you posed with respect to Burisch -- whom I'm NEUTRAL on -- BUT several people on my huge lists have written me privately and strongly suggested that perhaps the REASON Dan Burisch received such a severe beating (see attached pictures) was because he WAS DISCLOSING REAL USG secrets like – "The Clean Sphere," -- the existence of which was confirmed by ANONYMOUS in POSTING #23 AND supported by both G Loscowski and P McGovern as "100% FACT" http://serpo.org/release23.asp – the configuration of S2 (validated by Gene/Paul/ANONYMOUS) and; – his discussions about JROD. About half a dozen people also wrote me and asked if Bob (Collins) wasn't afraid of meeting a similar fate at the hands of USG-backed "black ops" agents of intrigue and subterfuge. I wrote back to all of them the following standard, "canned" reply, so they wouldn't stay up late at night worrying about Collins' well being: "NO! Robert Collins need NOT ever worry that he might meet a similar fate to that of one Dan Burisch. You see XXXXX [name of person], Robert "Comedian" Collins wrote a science FICTION book entitled "Exempt from Disclosure," and
because it i s intended as E-N-T-E-R-T-A-I-N-M-E-N-T, and for everyones' amusement ONLY, there's really NO reason to take him "out." "That being said, Collins' "big beat down" will probably come from ANONYMOUS and the DIA-6 who are NOT exactly on the best of terms with Collins because of all of his LIES and his version of D-I-S-I-N-F-O-T-A-I-N-M-E-N-T. Let me put it this way, Rich: Don't expect any of the typical "male bonding" one normally sees in USG intel circles. "It'll probably come down to this: Collins will get jumped someday in that crime-infested, poverty-stricken, rodent and rat haven, low-class ghetto neighborhood he calls "home sweet home" of Vandalia, OH, by some "street thugs" who will be DIA guys ready, willing and able to deliver their version of "street justice" to ONLINE TROUBLEMAKER Collins ... mano-a-mano ... hand-to-hand combat in some back alley. "When they get done with Capt COLLINS, he's going to make Dan Burisch look
like he could be on the next FRONT cover of "Gentleman's Quarterly Magazine" while COLLINS will be a prime candidate for the next edition of "EXTREME MAKEOVER!" "You see, Rich, ANONYMOUS and his group don't like Collins too much. ANONYMOUS is on the "Briefing Control Access Roster" at MANY USG installations throughout the country and he has INCREDIBLE ACCESS to a wealth of information ... how I WISH I could disclose just SOME of those UNpublished e-mails! "How many "Briefing Access Control Rosters" does Collins' name appear on? NONE! What kind of "access" to USG secrets does Collins have TODAY? NONE! "And, yes, there IS AN ACTIVE EFFORT to DIScredit Collins' little book by DIA operatives which should NOT surprise anyone. After all, Collins himself takes EVERY OPPORTUNITY to DIScredit, bash and viciously attack Dr Greer's book even though Dr Greer has NEVER personally nor professionally attacked Collins! What goes around
comes around! "As the great civil rights leader and humanitarian RODNEY KING once said at the height of the L. A. riots: "Can't we all just get along?" Instead of becoming embroiled and starting one online controversy after another, and TRASH TALKIN' everyone, I wish "Hellraisin' Bobby" would heed those pearls of wisdom.... I rest my case as ... "Mr WebTV" aka The COSMIC E-N-T-E-R-T-A-I-N-E-R-! –


Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:03 am
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Area 51 Declassified
by
George Knapp

As Las Vegas prepares to celebrate its centennial, another
Nevada institution is marking a milestone birthday this
month.
The world's best-known secret military base, Area 51, turns 50 years old this month. Area 51, located at dry Groom Lake in
Lincoln County, has been 'the' location of choice for the
most classified military programs in the world. For many years, the government would not admit its existence. People who worked there were sworn to secrecy. Now, they're talking.

Area 51 wasn't supposed to be a permanent base. It was built in 1955 for the U-2 spy plane. But when that work was finished, other so-called black projects were sent there, and today it is a multi-billion dollar facility that essentially cannot be duplicated.

The people who've worked there over the years are
justifiably proud about their work in protecting our national security. But they've never been able to talk about it, not to their spouses, not even to each other. Now, the people who were there, and the secrets they kept for so long, are breaking their silence.

Buses with blacked-out windows, cameras that scan for any movement, sensors buried in the dirt, armed choppers that patrol the skies are all ominous signs that warn of deadly force. The secrecy that's long been the trademark of Area 51 is as pronounced today as it's ever been. Whatever is going on inside, no one is going to talk about it. For decades, the government
would not admit the existence of Area 51. Its code name disappeared from maps. Employees could not tell their own spouses where they worked.

T.D. Barnes, retired CIA electronics specialist, said, "No
one knew about it. You never heard of Groom Lake in those days, or Area 51. Electrical whiz T.D. Barnes was working for NASA in the 1960s when he first focused on Area 51. He knew from radar signatures that something very fast was flying around out there.
Barnes was recruited by the CIA to join the Groom Lake
team, although this kind of teamwork was pretty unusual.

Barnes said, "You never talked about each other's jobs.
Some guys I knew, I worked with them, stayed there all week with them, to this day I don't know what their specialty was. We didn't ask. To this day you do not ask." If Area 51 had DNA, secrecy would be woven into it. Lockheed genius Kelly Johnson needed an out-of-the-way place to test his spindly spy plane, the U-2, and the dry bed of Groom Lake seemed perfect. It
was far from prying eyes, but still close to the already-secure Nevada Test Site.

In 1955, when the first U-2 was rolled out at Groom, the
base, then known as Watertown, consisted of only a few buildings and
hangars. For Francis Gary Powers and the other U-2 pilots and personnel, Area 51 was no garden spot, but the work was vital. The U-2 enabled America to find out what our adversaries were up to. Even before Powers U-2 was shot down over Russia, a successor to the U-2 was in the pipeline at Lockheed's Skunkworks, a family of planes that would be known as Blackbirds.

Bob Gilliland, Lockheed test pilot, "The greatest airplanes ever built, and still are, 40 years ago and still the world's fastest. Test pilot Bob Gilliland was chosen by Lockheed as the first man to fly the SR-71, one version of the Blackbird and the fastest plane too ever fly.

When the U-2's moved out of Groom Lake, the Blackbirds moved in. They could travel faster than Mach 3, but at such speeds, the planes and the pilots got mighty warm. Bob Gilliland, "Around 800 degrees Fahrenheit. A self-cleaning oven is 425. A soldering iron is 550, so it's a lot hotter than that. General Dennis Sullivan, CIA pilot, said, "They asked me, you want to volunteer to do something? What am I gonna do, I asked. They said, we can't tell you. Okay, I volunteer."

Military pilot Dennis Sullivan was recruited by the CIA to
work at Groom Lake in the early 1960s and to pilot the A-12, an early Blackbird. It was the middle of the Cold War, but for spy pilots, the cold war was pretty hot. Various enemies were trying to shoot down the Blackbirds.

And just flying the planes was dangerous enough. Gen.
Dennis
Sullivan said, "A guy in CIA headquarters told me when we looked at it, we figured we'd lose 20-percent of you guys, which is about what we did." There were other dangers. Area 51 was only a few miles from Ground Zero at the Nevada Test Site. The
base was often showed with radioactive fallout from atomic tests. In later years, workers were exposed to toxic chemicals because of regular open pit burning at Groom Lake. Despite the risks, those who worked at Area 51 are proud of their roles - proud and
tight-lipped.

T.D. Barnes said, "If there's something going on out there and they don't want people to know about it, they're not gonna know about it. It's not gonna happen." There are some festivities planned for the end of this month in Rachel, Nevada to mark the
50th anniversary of Area 51. Although, the I-Team is told the base has already held its own little shindig. The men we interviewed are part of an organization called the Roadrunners, made up of former Area 51 workers and headed by Roger Anderson.
The Roadrunners have helped get a lot of information about their projects declassified, which is why they were able to talk at all.

Friday night at 11, the I-Team will look at Area 51's other claim to fame - UFOs.


Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:45 pm
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Post 
This is a test...

Foxtail Lake
Stillwater Reservoir =Ftt

Dex


Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:57 pm
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Post 
Shady Groves wrote:


There is no way one single person can get through all this to find out which information is accurate and what is not. That's why I think what we need is a group that can be trusted to evaluate, analyze the raw data and come out with some kind of periodic reports to the public.


There was just a group,....MUFON. I wish that was still here today.

Nice post NS.

Dag

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Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:50 pm
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Here is some more very interesting stuff:

The one scientist who has confirmed the Burisch Saga, Henry Deacon, Has alosi confirmed 'Project Serpo'

"I should say that I didn’t realize at first that you were also the guy who created the Serpo website. Let me just say that it wasn’t called by that name. And I doubt that the travel took nine months. That's not how they traveled there."

DB has personally told me that Serpo was a part of a disinformation campaign to lead people away from the truth of the T9 treaty.

Just another funny contradiction in the story.

Dag

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Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:41 pm
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marci wrote:
You know, every once in awhile the words of the detractors get us down a little bit, it's only human, you know? We are slandered, libelled, innuendos are slung around like the dirt which most assuredly occupies their lives, so I guess they like to dump a little off at the good people trying to make a positive difference for this world.


Uncle John here: So marci gets down when it is pointed out how the lies and bad PR stack up. What does she do? She slings dirt.

Of course dirt occupies my life, I'm a gardener. ROTFLMAO

If d&m wanted to make a positive difference for this world they wouldn't surround themselves with thugs and they would allow open and civil discussion to occur. Of course they are not allowed that privilege. Their choice.


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Post Contradictions? What contradictions? LMAO...CIMB
Dag, if you think THAT'S a contradiction, wait until you read below.....

(Shady, I'll get some feedback on that post from Rainbow Eagle soon and will pass that on in due course.)

UPDATE FROM FAST THUNDER

When I spoke with Al Fast Thunder last night, he wanted me to make sure I extended his greetings to all on the Golden Thread, and he hopes his health improves enough to be able to visit here and share. I'm sure the same applies to his wife Ishoni, but it was Al that wanted me to pass that on to you.

Al's health has been quite poor lately, particularly his kidneys, as is that of Ishoni. This may or may not be due to activities on the part of the black-ops community, but he doesn't put it past them and he did recall that Gen. Myers (former MJ-7, and NOT on the new board of the "9 of Sion" that was allegedly the result of a clause in the Tau-9) had admonished hiim during that phone call back in March to remember his National Security Oath.

I used the occasion to query him again about the claim that Dan had allegedly gone to Mars, and in his good-hearted transparent style he reiterated that yes, indeed, Dan had told him that he and 'other scientists' had been taken to the Inca City site on Mars, and removed a number of vials that supposedly contained DNA. He said that a number of these vials were 'left there', and that some of the 'other scientists' go there (to Mars) still. He began his answer however by saying that Dan had told him he had gone to southern Iraq back in 1985 or 1990 (I told him it had to be 1990 if at all, as he wasn't even IN Majestic in 1985) and together with a team had uncovered a primitive 'Looking Glass'. When I asked where the reports of "$4 Billion" came in, he speculated that it was for r&d reverse-engineering the device or possibly for the construction of the present-day version.

At the very least, Al was adamant that Dan had recounted to him the fact that he had gone to Mars.

He also has no intention of going to Cheyenne mountain where NORAD is headquartered. These days he feels less and less trusting of anyone connected whatsoever with the elites. I reminded him of the time that he had told me of in his past when he had been lecturing in London and demanded to be taken to see the Baron Rothschild (which of course wouldn't happen) and we shared a good laugh.

The question before us now then, did Dan lie to Al? Did Dan tell the truth to Al and is lying to the public, thinking that that kind of information should only be shared with 'special' people? Was Al brainwashed into thinking Dan had told him of the Mars travel? Did Dan tell that to Al to test how much he would reveal to his friend? (moi, that is). If so, isn't that part of "disclosing the extraterrestrial involvement as you came to know it"?

One thing is certain to me: Al Fast Thunder never gave me the impression he was dancing on the head of a pin. On the other hand, Dan would parcel out little morsels of 'info', and would very MUCH dance around a statement of truth.

Even more shocking, Dan told him that as of Sept 8, 2007 (a few years ago), planes were prepared to fly out over wide areas of the nation and disperse massive quantities of the 'Avian Bird Flu'. Didn't both Shady and Nancy Lieder both show that?


Speaking of which.......the "Most Honorable Prof. Crain" coming up next.


BTW, "CIMB" means "Crying In My Beer"

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Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:26 am
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Post Pots and Kettles
UncleJohn wrote:
marci wrote:
You know, every once in awhile the words of the detractors get us down a little bit, it's only human, you know? We are slandered, libelled, innuendos are slung around like the dirt which most assuredly occupies their lives, so I guess they like to dump a little off at the good people trying to make a positive difference for this world.


Uncle John here: So marci gets down when it is pointed out how the lies and bad PR stack up. What does she do? She slings dirt.

Of course dirt occupies my life, I'm a gardener. ROTFLMAO

If d&m wanted to make a positive difference for this world they wouldn't surround themselves with thugs and they would allow open and civil discussion to occur. Of course they are not allowed that privilege. Their choice.


UJ, I think we're back to playing "Pots N' Kettles". And yes, the glaring 800-lb gorilla sits there reminding them it's "their choice".

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Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:30 am
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Post 
Dag, you should read this:
http://serpo.info/

this is a very intereting look behing the scenes...

also read the post below from Wyz's forum
also posted by shawnna:

Shawnna wrote:
Now here's an interesting read - and it shows just how deep Ry (aka Ryan Dube) and Zep (aka Steve Broadbent) have tunneled into this particular rabbit hole. Or more accurately, how much of a pawn they now are in this game.

:P

NOTE - "Tom" is Ron Pandolfi; "Jim" is Christopher 'Kit' Green, MD and I believe "Paul" may be John Alexanderbut am not positive.

And of course, most of us know who Richard C. Doty is.

Quote:
The Real ‘X-Files’ : Is Uncle Sam a Closet UFOlogist?

Gus Russo


Gus Russo is the author of four books and a reporter/producer/writer for over one dozen US major network television documentaries, as well as films produced in Germany, the UK, France, Mexico, and Japan. He speaks fluent English is an uncanny predictor of past historical events. One day after he was born, the Cold War officially broke out.

June 12, 2007

[Note: In late May 2007, I was asked by Dan Smith, who is discussed in this article, to attempt to write an overview of the apparent interest of the intelligence community in UFOs. Although Dan paid me a modest retainer for my time, he agreed to have absolutely no editorial control over my work or its conclusions. He was fully prepared to be, possibly, unhappy with whatever I delivered.]

With terrorism, drug trafficking, climate change, and ever-present pork projects on its plate, the US government, one would think, would have zero free time – not to mention resources -- to devote the supremely elusive topic of flying saucers. But, for some observers, there is compelling evidence that it does -- and in direct contradiction of its own official statements.

These federal forays into the fanciful seem inspired by the relatively new buzzwords added to the UFO lexicon, not the iconic “Roswell,” “Alien Autopsies,” or even “MJ-12 documents” of old. Those passé riddles are no longer considered “coins of the realm.” Now the most intense debates involve subjects with names like Project Beta, SERPO, Project Camelot, Operation Snow White, and Star Gate. And weaving in and out of all these alleged controversies, especially in the UFO internet chat rooms, are at least three senior intelligence analysts and one retired Air Force Special Investigator: “Tom” (pseudo.), a MASINT specialist (Measures and Signals Intelligence) with a PhD in chemistry and Paul, an aeronautics scholar interested in “breakthrough propulsion and gravity-modification technologies,” work down the hall from each at the Directorate of National Intelligence (DNI) headquarters in Washington. “Jim” (pseudo.), a physician and former CIA officer in the Directorate of Science and Technology, maintains his security clearance, and travels back to Washington often to work on classified psychological studies. Richard “Rick” Doty, a longtime friend and colleague of Jim, was an investigator assigned the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI).

What has been confounding UFO buffs for years is the regular presence of these well-informed “spooks” (and others less active) in both the physical UFO world and the world of cyberspace saucers. The mystery seems to have its origins in 1956, pre Tom- Paul-Jim-Rick, and pre internet, and in the most unlikely of settings: the office of Ward Kimball, one of Walt Disney’s key animators. At a 1979 UFO symposium in San Francisco, Kimball told how the US Air Force had approached Disney to make a UFO documentary, the ostensible purpose being to help prepare the collective American psyche for planned revelations concerning the reality of extraterrestrials. If that wasn’t enough, the senior flyboys offered to supply actual UFO footage, which Disney would be allowed to use in his film. It must have seemed to Kimball that his character Jiminy Cricket’s “wish upon a star” had actually been answered. However, a few weeks later, the offer was withdrawn just as quickly as it had been made. Kimball said that an Air Force Colonel said brusquely, “There indeed was plenty of UFO footage, but that neither Ward, nor anyone else, was going to get access to it.”

The Air Force revisited the gambit in the early seventies, when Air Force Colonels Robert Coleman and George Weinbrenner approached documentary filmmaker Robert Emenegger with a very similar astounding offer. The two colonels, who were possibly attached to AFOSI, took Emenegger to Norton AFB near San Bernardino and awed him with footage of what appeared to be three flying saucers landing at Holloman AFB in New Mexico in 1971. Incredibly, the Air Force was again, according to the colonels, going to give the footage to Emenegger as a climax to his forthcoming film, UFOs, Past, Present and Future. But once again, at the eleventh hour the Air Force changed its mind, they said, because of the Watergate scandal. Perhaps the country couldn’t handle more bad news.

In the eighties, AFOSI agent Rick Doty, a longtime colleague and friend of analyst Jim, appeared in New Mexico in order to tease scientist Paul Bennewitz with promises to divulge the government’s UFO secrets. And in this case, the Air Force actually delivered the goods, in a sense. Bennewitz, an entrepreneur who specialized in selling high altitude testing equipment to the Air Force, had contacted AFOSI after filming bizarre flying craft near Kirtland AFB, outside Albuquerque. As a result, Doty was tasked not only with determining if Bennewitz had stumbled onto classified aircraft tests (and also scientific research such as Project Starfire), but also with feeding the physicist mountains of disinformation about UFOs, the furtive purpose being to divert his attention from classified goings-on, and later, to monitor the flow of information through the UFOlogy network. A still-unidentified Air Force intelligence officer also seduced best-selling UFO writer Bill Moore (The Philadelphia Experiment and The Roswell Incident) into assisting Doty in his spycraft; in exchange, Moore was offered real UFO information, including meeting a live extraterrestrial – promises that, like Emenegger’s UFO footage, never materialized. The charade played out for most of the eighties, driving poor Bennewitz, who coined the disclosures Project Beta, to a mental meltdown. Moore actually admitted his double agent role to an astonished UFO community at a Las Vegas convention in July 1989, however the bizarre alien tales he fed Bennewitz poisoned the UFO database, perhaps permanently. Infinite mutations of the Doty fictions continue to spread like an internet virus. Just google “SERPO” for a taste.

In 1983, the government next approached Emmy Award winning documentarian Linda Howe, then at work on a UFO film for HBO. After meeting with Howe in Albuquerque, Rick Doty took her to the AFOSI offices at Kirtland, and not only promised her the same footage that was dangled in front of Emenegger, but he went one step further.

“My superiors asked me to show this to you,” Doty said as he handed Howe a file entitled “Briefing Paper for the President of the United States.” Allowed only to scan the explosive cache, Howe saw tales of crashed extraterrestrial craft, alien bodies, and even more astounding, UFO crash survivors. Although Howe was not allowed to take the papers away, Doty promised her the same “landing footage” promised to Emenegger a decade earlier for his film. But, just as they had with Emenegger, months of negotiating went absolutely nowhere. Doty later admitted to author Greg Bishop that the ploy was but another government counterintelligence probe into the UFO community.

The Kimball, Emenegger, Bennewitz, and Howe affairs were just the beginning of excursions into the world of UFO ephemera by federal employees. In the 1990’s the feds seemed determined to insert their agenda into the nascent internet, where UFOlogists were now trading “evidence” around the world at lightening speed. Their newest civilian contact became a soft-spoken computer analyst who was determined to use the new technology to get to “the truth.”

Dan Smith of Maryland, the son of a former economic advisor to the White House, has spent two decades, largely via internet blogging, pursuing his interest in future apocalyptic scenarios. Invariably, his quest led him into the miasma of rumored UFO disclosure scenarios. In 1991, Smith learned of the possibility of a real-life X-Files when UK crop circle researchers made him aware of analyst Tom, and his forays into their provenance. Before calling Tom, Smith vetted him with NASA, which readily agreed that Tom was the government’s man on “phenomenology.” Thus, in September 1991, Smith started calling Tom, and in only their second conversation, Tom floored Dan by announcing, “I’m going to Los Alamos next week to talk to aliens.” The trip to the famed nuclear lab never happened, as best Dan can ascertain.

Dan and Tom’s relationship has progressed from phone calls and email exchanges to attending family outings and ball games together, and even to meeting at his agency’s headquarters. Throughout the course of the relationship, Tom made it abundantly clear that he is officially following the UFO topic as part of his intelligence portfolio, admitting that he had participated, as did Jim, in an inter-agency “Phenomenology Working Group.” When pressed for details, however, Tom only gives obtuse, often cryptic answers as to why the monitoring of the UFO crowd consumes what one insider estimates as 20% of his publicly funded workday. Unbeknownst to Smith, in 1992 Tom allegedly admitted to another internet contact, Habib “Henry” Azadehdel, that he had indeed been part of a working group. In a phone conversation recorded by Azadehdel, Tom, or someone impersonating Tom, confided that he had been the first member of an inter-agency “working group.” “You know,” Tom offered, “I was a member of that Working Group, ah, when it started…I was a member of it, but I, I resigned I guess after the first meeting,” claimed Tom. The meeting, he explained was organized by Jim, and there were “about a dozen people there.”

In his 1990 book Out There, New York Times reporter Howard Blum described a top secret inter-agency Working Group, which he contended met in the Pentagon in 1987, the purpose being to investigate UFOs. The participants Blum named overlapped too nicely with those known to be in Tom and Jim’s gathering: in the minds of many UFOlogists, Tom and Jim were members of Blum’s UFO Working Group. Thus the current controversy often postulates that their interest relates to an ongoing UFO Working Group mandate.


Although Smith seemed only bemused by the attention, one of his friends, an engineer who frequently holds classified government contracts, became so concerned that he reported Tom to his agency’s Inspector General. “I later found out that it became a six-month internal investigation,” says the friend, “but, in the end, Tom was able to convince them that his communication with Smith fell within his official purview.” Still, Smith’s friends worry that Smith’s health is suffering from all the gamesmanship, worried that he might become the next Paul Bennewitz. Since 1994, Tom continues to communicate with Dan on a regular basis.

Next up on the US intel radar was one Bob Bigelow, the billionaire heir to the Bigelow Tea fortune and owner of the Budget Suites of America hotel chain and Bigelow Aerospace. In 1996, Bigelow created the National Institute of Discovery Science (NIDS) to explore paranormal activity, especially cattle mutilations in the Utah badlands and UFO reports. Enter officers Tom and Jim, now nick-named collectively “The Aviary” by their contactees. Jim confirmed to a popular website administrator that Bigelow’s think tank was the subject of informal discussion at DIA sponsored meetings he attended on the threats of emerging technologies. More importantly, analyst Tom has openly admitted to Dan Smith that he was so interested in NIDS that he attended its inaugural meeting, and kept tabs on its research until its dissolution on 2004.

The dawning of the twenty-first century saw a marked escalation in the activities of Tom, Jim, and Rick, especially in cyberspace. Chris Iverson, administrator with the internet’s “Open Minds Forum,” says, “ I have spoken directly with Tom, Jim, and Rick. The highlight so far is the conversation I had with Tom several weeks ago. He went quite far in describing not just his relationship with Dan Smith but also covered several other topics as well.” Iverson says that Tom corroborated what he told Smith years ago about the mysterious trips to Los Alamos. “The story is that these people made several monthly trips out from Washington DC to Los Alamos several years ago to either meet directly with "The Visitors" or to meet with the people who were responsible for holding or communicating with them,” explains Iverson. “Tom stated that yes, these trips did take place, but they occurred over 15 years ago and are not happening today.”

The list of contacts goes on. Gary Bekkum, of Starstream Research, says, “I have had increasing contact, by email, and phone, with some of the Aviary members, concerning stories I have written about their activities, including requests not to expose ‘sources and methods.’ I have also had increasing contact from others, including a DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Project) subcontractor.” Ryan Dube, of Reality Uncovered notes that his first contact with the trio came when Doty began harassing one of his moderators. “Tom contacted us in 2006, via email, with a request to assist him in his investigation of Richard Doty,” remembers Dube. “He wanted to know the details of the harassment and Rick's supervisor contact information. I was suspicious of Tom from the start, and didn't believe him. However we verified that his emails were coming from DIA military servers and the contact phone number he initial gave me was in fact located in the DC area. That's when I realized that I was actually talking to the real Tom - the intelligence analyst. I've been in contact (phone and email) with Tom up until about three months ago, as well as Jim.”

The Tom, Jim, and Rick Show even enjoys syndication across the pond. Brendan Burton, the British administrator for the “Open Minds” forum, vividly recalls when Jim emailed him in early 2006. The missive is again a bit of a tease, wherein the agent makes “hypothetical” statements about the size of the UFO cover-up. But, Burton adds, “He seemed to confirm that the US government was indeed in this thing, right up to their necks!” The UK’s Caryn Anscomb, who frequently contributes to the “Reality Uncovered” and “Starstream” sites, first heard from analyst Jim in 2004, and has had regular communications from him ever since. Ditto Steve Broadbent, another Reality Uncovered administrator from England.

Both Tom and Jim have made only half-hearted attempts to hide their identities (this is especially peculiar regarding Tom, who still works full-time at the highest echelons of US intelligence.) Their impressive CV’s, contact information, and emails are regularly exchanged by the bloggers as the amateurs try to brainstorm an answer to the ultimate question: what is their agenda? Also asking the question is UK filmmaker John Lundberg, who has been traipsing across the US recently, filming anyone who will agree to speak on the subject for his forthcoming film Miragemen. Lundberg has, like this writer, also had communications with both Tom and Jim.

Dan Smith and the rest of his web colleagues, who are still in regular contact with Tom, Jim, and Rick, are confused for another reason: the feds have officially stated ad nauseum that they maintain no interest in the subject of little green men. The proclamations began in 1953 with the publication of the CIA’s “Robertson Panel Report.” Chaired by CIA physicist Howard Percy Robertson, the panel concluded that 90 percent of UFO sightings could be readily identified with meteorological, astronomical, or natural phenomena, and that the remaining 10 percent could be similarly explained with more study. It further suggested that the Air Force should begin to reduce "public gullibility" and utilize the mass media, including influential media giants like the Walt Disney Corporation, to demystify UFO reports.

In 1968, Rick Doty’s Air Force weighed in with the 1,438-page Condon Committee Report, a two-year study chaired by physicist Edward Condon. The investigation, undertaken by eight faculty members from the University of Colorado, concluded (albeit with some dissention amongst the faculty ranks) that all UFO reports had conventional explanations, and further study of the subject would not be worthwhile. The Air Force put the issue aside for almost three decades, then in 1995 released a UFO “Fact Sheet” that noted: “From 1947 to 1969, the Air Force investigated Unidentified Flying Objects under Project Blue Book. The project, headquartered at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, was terminated Dec. 17, 1969. Of a total of 12,618 sightings reported to Project Blue Book, 701 remained ‘unidentified.’”

Two years later, a Pentagon spokesman told the press that the military had “long ago” stopped tracking UFOs. That same year, Gerald K. Haines, the official historian of the CIA, joined the chorus of denials when he authored the Agency’s position in its official publication, Studies in Intelligence. Although the CIA was concerned about UFOs until the early 1950s, Haines wrote, it has since “paid only limited and peripheral attention to the phenomena.” Haines added that the actual explanation to the UFO mystery was much more mundane than the fantasy of alien visitation: UFOs were nothing more than classified, experimental US aircraft.

How then to explain the ongoing presence of Tom, Jim, and Rick?

UFOlogists are quick to point out one other study that might explain their true goal. In 1960, the Brookings Institution drafted a 100-page report for NASA, advising the newborn US space agency of societal chaos if it discovered alien life and did not release the story in a very controlled way. (NASA ultimately ignored the Brookings warning when, in 1972 it launched the Pioneer 10 spacecraft to the farthest reaches of space; affixed to the craft was a gold-anodized aluminum plaque engraved with a map showing the location of Earth.) Thus, it is postulated, the intelligence community might be preparing the world for “Disclosure.”

Some Answers


Greg Bishop, who chronicled the Bennewitz-Doty saga in his 2005 book Project Beta, and has himself been contacted separately by four intelligence professionals, sums up the feelings of many, saying “There is no denying a concern with the UFO subject in the corridors of the Pentagon and the halls of our government. How much these people actually know is the subject of hot debate.” Recently, however, in private statements to bloggers and to this writer, some clarity is coming to the issues of “who knows what” and “what is their agenda?” Research for this article points to these answers: they know little or nothing about UFOs, and their agendas differ.


Ryan Dube recalled what Tom once revealed about his interest. “Once,” Dube said, “when I pushed Tom over the phone on why he remains so involved with in ufology “his statement - paraphrased, was essentially: ‘No one needs to know why I'm interested...and if I have any hint that anyone is at all on to why I am interested, I'll certainly do everything within my power to distract them - but I can tell you one thing - my interest certainly has nothing at all to do with aliens or UFOs.’” This is consistent with Tom’s statement to another site administrator: “There are no classified files on UFOs because UFOs don’t exist.” Ryan points out the obvious paradox: “The active involvement of current and former government officials certainly suggests that our government sees value in the field of UFOlogy for some reason.”

Tom’s motivation, it now appears certain, can be summed up in two words: national security. In a recent interview, a senior intelligence official who is familiar with spooks in cyberspace explained, “Tom is interested in the subject because, one, he is concerned that DIA officers parading as CIA officers -- a felony -- are leaking classified material to the UFO groups. He also knows that in years past the KGB used parapsychology and paranormal groups to get to military people with classified information. He is concerned that any enemy group could easily use these forums to search out national security secrets.” Joel Brenner, the United States national counterintelligence chief recently said that the number of Russian agents operating in the country had reached “Cold War levels,” according to the Russian News & Information Agency.

“They are sending over an increasing and troubling number of intelligence officers into the United States,” Brener reported. Former head of FBI counterintelligence David Szady echoed Brenner's, adding that Russian agents often arrived in the U.S. under the cover of students or businessmen. The Times UK recently noted the Russians’ escalation in spy wars against the US: “White House intelligence advisers believe no other country is as aggressive as Russia in trying to obtain US secrets, with the possible exception of China. In particular the SVR, as the former KGB’s foreign intelligence arm is now known, is using a network of undercover agents in America to gather classified information about sensitive technologies, including military projects under development and high-tech research.” The article adds that Putin’s intelligence apparatus views cyberspace as a powerful new weapon. Among the evidence cited is Moscow’s recent cyber attack against the Baltic state Estonia over its decision to relocate a Soviet-era military monument.

Some see corroboration for the government’s interest in internet UFO writers in the so-called “Stargate Archive” files. Stargate was the name of a remote viewing project founded by the DIA in 1972, then later transferred to CIA. In 2004 the CIA released under a FOIA request the Stargate Archive files, which reveal that the CIA was indeed concerned about monitoring UFO authors who might be privy to classified material.

Then there were the security breaches that occurred during Operation Stargate itself, which Tom was instrumental in bringing to an end in 1996. By the mid-seventies it was learned that Stargate, which had Aviary members on its board, and other CIA projects, had been massively infiltrated, the target of Scientology’s infamous “Operation Snow White.”In 1979, eleven highly placed Church executives, including Mary Sue Hubbard (wife of founder L. Ron Hubbard and second in command of the organization), pleaded guilty or were convicted in federal court of obstructing justice, burglary of government offices, and theft of documents and government property.

Tom admits that there is one other minor reason for him to be surfing the UFO web. In a recent email, he let his guard down a tad, explaining how UFO bloggers can serve a patriotic purpose, if inadvertently. “Under normal times this tendency towards mass delusional states and radical heresies is perhaps a weakness,” Tom wrote. “However in stressful times it promotes radical out-of-the-box thinking…[it] plays an increasingly important role as we approach cataclysmic species survival stress points. The end of accessible oil could be such a point. Most people will continue to believe new oil discoveries are just around the corner…[bloggers] search for solutions in the strangest places. Perhaps they will find one in time.”

Working down the DNI hall from Tom, cyberspace regular Paul, the aeronautics and advanced propulsion researcher, explains that, much like fictional X-Files agent Fox Mulder, he believes because he wants to believe. Further, he hopes to end his science colleagues’ discrimination against UFO believers.

Then there is Jim, whose professional history in the subject goes back to his personal involvement in the Stargate project in the 1970’s and as a participant in the legendary “Working Group” meetings in the eighties. As one of the intel community’s most senior medical analysts, Jim frequently communicates with UFOlogists. Chris Iverson believes that Tom and Jim clearly have differing agendas, noting, “Jim is the person I have had the most contact with over the last several months and he seems to be interested in the spreading of viral memes over the internet, particularly in relation to this subject.” Iverson is not far off the mark. However, in a recent meeting with this writer, Jim explained that his internet presence emanates from a number of overlapping pursuits.

“The whole subject,” Jim says in wonderfully measured speech, “is composed of three components: delusion, sociological groupthink, and a kernel of truth.” Jim then reminds that he is first and foremost a medical scientist. “My interest in this subject is much, much more professional than it is personal. That is, 90 to 95% of all persons who are engaged fully with this [UFO] subject are psychiatrically ill, and by that I mean that they are on medication or should be.” Jim elaborates that “viral memes,”[see below] in which disturbed people seek validation in numbers on the web, is, or should be, a growing public health concern. That said, Jim nonetheless has a real interest in UFO’s, and seemingly with good reason.

“I believe there’s a ‘core story’,” Jim explained, “but I don’t know what it is. I have been told by people more senior than me that there is some truth to it, but they told me time and time again to stop pursuing it with CIA people and other intel types. Two very senior officials told me they saw briefing books, [however] the only ones who would be cleared to know the story are the most senior Pentagon career officers.” Jim refuses to divulge his sources, but when pressed, he reiterates what they told him: look to the Pentagon and the private sector’s aerospace and weapons labs, etc. US intelligence “doesn’t have labs capable of dealing with something this profound.” He also notes that over the years he has received thousands of UFO-related government documents in unmarked envelopes. Although some are obvious fakes, others, according to Jim, contain information that correlates with known, but still classified, scientific studies. In an intriguing footnote, Jim adds, “I have spoken to three former Presidents and the subject always comes up, not as a briefing, but they also want to know the truth. But apparently they aren’t cleared for it.”

Both Tom and Jim seem to share at least one rationale for their internet excursions: studying the frightening potential of “viral internet memes.” Coined by evolutionary theorist Richard Dawkins in 1976 (The Selfish Gene), a meme is a unit of cultural information that evolves the way a gene propagates from one organism to another, and subject to all the analogous unintended mutations. In the view of many, computers and blogs could function as powerful meme “replicators.” Richard Brodie, the creator of Microsoft Word, notes, “Most of these viruses of the mind are spread because they are intriguing or frightening or inspiring, and not necessarily because they're true. That's the problem.” It doesn’t take much intuition to envision an enemy creating memes that can be used to destabilize a society, or a freelance predator utilizing them to cozy up to potential victims. Caryn Anscomb writes online, “The UFO community has been deeply penetrated by the manipulators of information, who couldn’t really give a fig whether there might be any valuable data pertaining to Aliens and contact hidden behind the deafening noise. That’s not their business; their business is information warfare.”

Rick Doty’s intent seems by far the most mysterious. He has been vouched for by two former Directors of Central Intelligence (DCI) – as well as Jim – but has been excoriated by his former superior at AFOSI, Col. Richard L. Weaver, who recently noted that Doty had been “cashiered out of OSI” and that he has a well-known “lack of veracity.” It should also be noted that the two DCIs only knew Doty before they ran the Agency, when they all were deployed in Europe together. The DCIs are only vouching for his previous work, not his UFO allegations.

Doty has promulgated some of the most outlandish “alien contact” stories extant. He not only fed them to Paul Bennewitz in the 1980’s, but to the public at large in his 2005 book with Robert Collins, Exempt From Disclosure. But amidst the book’s sci-fi-like claims of extraterrestrials in US custody and “reverse engineered” saucers -- currently being exploited by one Gordon Novel with his Project Camelot -- Doty also admits the following: “There are times when you deceive the public you are doing the public a great service and I certainly protect the public with deception operations if it were for their own good.” Nonetheless, much the same way that reporters speculated about the fraudulent New Orleans DA Jim Garrison forty years ago, there remains a group of UFO bloggers who continue to opine about Doty: “He must have something.”

Greg Bishop, among the most sober of the UFO authors, sums up the continued presence of federally employed UFO believers like Jim, Paul and Rick thus: “Their agenda is to do their jobs first, and find out what is going on behind the scenes with the UFO enigma… They get hints, but never the whole picture, and that becomes the quest after they leave active service.”

What then of the so-called “Top Secret UFO Working Group” in which Tom, Jim and others participated in the 1980s? Fortunately, four participants in those gatherings have communicated with this writer, and one in particular shared original paperwork from the meetings with Caryn, who graciously shared them with me. Consequently, the following can be said of the Working Group story:

• The key meetings were held from May 20-25, 1985 in the secure facility of the BDM Corporation (a high clearance military contractor) in MacLean, VA.

• There were twenty known attendees (we have the names) representing Los Alamos Nuclear Labs, Army Intelligence, CIA, Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas, and various scientists with security clearances. Other unnamed guests such as Jim attended.

• The meeting was titled “Advanced Theoretical Physics Conference” and its main objective was to study odd radar tracings to determine their origins (“friendly” “enemy” or “unknown”). They turned out to be totally anomalous.

Jim notes that quite a few of the attendees turned out to be closet UFO buffs who only showed up to see who knew the truth about ETs (no one did). He called it a waste of time, leaving after just the first day. Tom recalls attending a follow-up meeting at the Pentagon that was so silly that he made a derisive remark before walking out in the middle of it.

Summing it all up, there is certainly a very small percentage government officials with intelligence clearance -- some active, some retired -- who are interested in the UFO research community, if not UFOs themselves. Some of these men are of the impression, rightly or wrongly, that a very few individuals in government and the private sector are keeping the big secret even from them. This is small consolation to earnest UFO researchers, but at least they should no longer feel alone and marginalized as kooks completely at odds with officialdom.

All this does not mean that evidence for alien visits is non-existent, it’s just that Tom, Jim, Paul, and Rick don’t appear to be the keepers of it. The opinion of Ryan Dube appears inarguable. “If the field of UFOlogy could be cleaned of the rubbish,” Dube wrote me, “we may find that there remains very valid and important evidence and stories that demand our attention - and might actually finally reveal the truth about the alien and UFO question.” And if Jim ever decides to reveal his sources, things could get very interesting.




Dagwood wrote:
Here is some more very interesting stuff:

The one scientist who has confirmed the Burisch Saga, Henry Deacon, Has alosi confirmed 'Project Serpo'

"I should say that I didn’t realize at first that you were also the guy who created the Serpo website. Let me just say that it wasn’t called by that name. And I doubt that the travel took nine months. That's not how they traveled there."

DB has personally told me that Serpo was a part of a disinformation campaign to lead people away from the truth of the T9 treaty.

Just another funny contradiction in the story.

Dag


Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:57 am
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